91ɬÂþ

Intro: [00:00:02] Hey everyone this is Lynn Vartan and you are listening to the APEX Hour on K91ɬÂþ Thunder 91.1 In this show, you get more personal time with the guests who visit Southern Utah University from all over. Learning more about their stories and opinions beyond their presentations on stage. We will also give you some new music to listen to and hope to turn you on to some new sounds and new genres. You can find us here every Thursday at 3:00 p.m. and on the web at suu.edu/apex or email us at suuapex@icloud.com. For now, welcome to this week's show here on Thunder 91.1

Lynn Vartan: [00:00:51] Alright. Well welcome everyone. We are here in the studio today. It's 3:00 p.m. and this is Dr. Lynn Vartan. And joining me in the studio is Dr. Ravi Roy welcome.

Ravi Roy: [00:01:03] Thank you Lynn it's great to be here.

Lynn Vartan: [00:01:05] So cool. You are our first live guest in the studio. How do you feel?

Ravi Roy: [00:01:11] That's quite an honor. And it's a really cool studio. This is great.

Lynn Vartan: [00:01:15] It is indeed. We're here in the student center it's for those of you who aren't familiar with the building it's completely open and students are walking by and it's our main thoroughfare. Well we had a great morning so far today. And Dr. Roy gave his 2018 faculty distinguished lecture and he's probably breathing a sigh of relief for a more casual discussion here. But we'd love to just kind of get into it and just kind of ask some questions and we'll see where the conversation takes us. Would you mind giving those at home listening just kind of a little introduction to your life and career?

Ravi Roy: [00:01:53] Sure. Well as I approach 50 years old now I'm reminded that I've been teaching for about 20 years at the university level which is kind of humbling when you think about it if you look back. But yeah so I grew up in Los Angeles California. And it's something we have in common obviously.

Lynn Vartan: [00:02:14] That's exactly right.

Ravi Roy: [00:02:16] At Cal State Northridge where I was an undergraduate for two years and then transferred to UCLA and from there I went to Claremont Graduate University and took my Master of Arts and Public Policy and then my Ph.D. and long story short I'd been back to see on a couple of times to first teach in their mph program after a public administration program and to run it before I did that I was here for a couple of years. About 14 years ago.

Lynn Vartan: [00:02:47] Wow.

Ravi Roy: [00:02:49] And then in the interim I spent about three years in Melbourne Australia teaching there and back here in southern Utah.

Lynn Vartan: [00:02:56] Wow. Well I have so many questions for you but let's start with Melbourne. Tell me a little bit about your experience there and what you did and maybe you know some of your take on life there. Well.

Ravi Roy: [00:03:11] I think the surveys show that you know a lot of Americans have a very positive view of Australia and about Melbourne in particular I know I did growing up being a huge George Miller fan of the Mad Max films and yeah we ended up moving to a suburb that's pretty close where they filmed the original Mad Max with no way. So did you visit the set. You know the the the the police station for example is the Spottswood iron works and then the University of Melbourne parking garages where they kept the interceptor and that movie so yeah I mean I got to be quite familiar with all that stuff which I thought was really cool.

Lynn Vartan: [00:03:48] That's cool. Do you have pictures of yourself there?

Ravi Roy: [00:03:51] I don't I'm not a big picture for those who know me they've seen my my dumb phone that looks like something that popped out of 1992. I don't know if my phone can take pictures. I certainly don't use it so.

Lynn Vartan: [00:04:06] Well you have those mental pictures right. Those are just as valuable. That's right. And so what kind of work did you do while you were there

Ravi Roy: [00:04:14] I went there to teach international development which is a related field to public administration the kind of global arena. And while I was there I was promoted pretty quickly to run the the master's program in international development. And I also was at the research center there. It's a place called RMIT University which is you know kind of a small universe and about 90000 students on any given day of the week. And in all seriousness it is the largest universe in Australia it competes in size of population with probably University of Michigan and Ohio State.

Lynn Vartan: [00:04:55] That's amazing. And, you know comparing, do you like that huge campus I mean does it just breathe with excitement or is it a little overwhelming or?

Ravi Roy: [00:05:06] So it's RMIT is in the central business district of Melbourne. And so they.. It's very much organized like NYU. You really don't know you're on the campus. I see. So the buildings are numbered and they're peppered throughout the central business district of Melbourne. So really Melbourne Central station is kind of like well as our said we should just call that RMIT central because really that's right that's so you know that for our cluster that's our property and we were responsible for a lot of the foot traffic and so forth.

Lynn Vartan: [00:05:40] How did you find the students in terms of these topics and maybe how do they compare to students in the US in these topics?

Ravi Roy: [00:05:49] So I mean students in Australia I think by nature, are a little bit more aware of international issues. I think that's changing more and more as more and more millennials do travel-study abroad. Their careers are taking them abroad. Australia really is to characterize it correctly as more Australasia. So they are kind of already integrated I mean their nearest neighbors Indonesia it's like as close as are Mexico right. So you know they travel abroad you know for vacations to study abroad and so there is already there was earlier on I think a focus on the global östra but we're catching up on Graser.

Lynn Vartan: [00:06:43] That's great. And any plans to go back would you like to spend more time there

Ravi Roy: [00:06:48] Well my youngest was actually born there. So we have an incentive. I did get an endeavor fellowship which is kind of like a Fulbright from their government last year so I did spend-I got the opportunity spent a month there last December and nor to make sure I stayed in the good graces of my wife and kids, I arrived back on Christmas Eve to make sure that I was back home.

Lynn Vartan: [00:07:16] Good for you, well done! Well that's great. And I also I'm interested in your travels to Indonesia I know you've you've worked with some officials there and then you have a great award from the president there. Can you talk about that project that Indonesia toward 2025 I think it's called?

Ravi Roy: [00:07:35] So in 2010 His Excellency Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono had established, I think it was in 2009 actually, the Indonesian defense university and the whole idea was to bring in a kind of international scholars and working with an outfit in part with the Germans and they had a really great conference there and I was invited to represent Australia in that mix. And so the idea was to bring in a kind of. International perspective of where Indonesia could go strategically and so forth. There was also a large part of this was a PR. I mean a meaningful PR not just lip service PR, but a meaningful PR to restore Indonesia's credibility particularly with countries like Australia who were very much involved in the conflict with East Timor, which had occurred, you know, a few years prior to that and so that was that was a very painful situation there. And this was a wise investment I believe to integrate Indonesia at that time, more within a global conversation a more collaborative conversation. And based on that, there was a summer school series, short intensive courses daylong type of thing and they invited me back again. Now it was a few months later I think the first 2025 conference was in March of 2010. I was invited back then and sometime in June, I think it was.

Lynn Vartan: [00:09:14] How do you feel it's progressing is it is it working? Their achievement toward its goals to be more collaborative in your opinion.

Ravi Roy: [00:09:22] That's a good question I haven't, unfortunately, stayed as connected now having left Australia back in 2011 obviously regime changes have happened there so it'll be interesting to revisit that I just haven't had an opportunity given. But at that time there was a genuine conversation about the desire to do this and concerns that it might ultimately not work what was very interesting to have that kind of open dialogue with members of the military. Oh wow defense minister was a graduate of UC Berkeley. Oh you know so we know I'm from UCLA we had that you see Kujan common. I think he was saying that one of his children was also a graduate of UC as well. So it is true what they say about the Berkeley mafia and the Indonesian government.

Ravi Roy: [00:10:13] Turns out that that's not just a fairy tale that's fantastic.

Lynn Vartan: [00:10:18] (laughs) That's fantastic. Well looking a little bit more homeward I know that you are very interested in global studies and opportunities for students in that way and I know that we're working really hard at you to increase and students experience internationally. Can you talk a little bit about the importance of that as it resonates with you and some of your opinions about our students and their connection to the to the global society?

Ravi Roy: [00:10:46] Yeah absolutely and I'll take this opportunity to make good my colleague Dr. Angel Pool-Funai who's director of the MPA program to express- as part of our accreditation with the network of public affairs public policy at ministration schools accreditation that we enjoy with our masters of public ministration program. One of the things that we were lauded for in that accreditation process, which was a lengthy process, was our experiential learning. And a big part of that was our deep involvement in study abroad and Angela- Dr. Pool-Funai and Deena Marchal who is the coordinator of the program they are leading up our study abroad along with some other professors this summer to do all the countries that are part of the UK as long as there is the UK.

Lynn Vartan: [00:11:39] Oh great. And do you know that study abroad still open?

Ravi Roy: [00:11:43] As far as I know it's still open.

Lynn Vartan: [00:11:45] Okay so anybody out there interested, I mean that's all that these mentioned all the countries in the U.K.

Ravi Roy: [00:11:51] Yes that's correct.

Lynn Vartan: [00:11:52] And so students probably could still register for that if they wanted to.

Lynn Vartan: [00:11:56] With those courses absolutely or you know Northern Ireland, Republic of Ireland, Scotland, England, Wales.

Lynn Vartan: [00:12:03] Cool.

Ravi Roy: [00:12:04] So yeah they're really doing the full treatment and it's a mixture. Because our MBA program has a focus particularly in student affairs. And so they're making sure to visit government institutions but also educational institutions and building those kinds of connections and networks and so forth. And so I think it's going to be a fantastic experience.

Lynn Vartan: [00:12:26] That's great. Well you heard it here if you're interested in getting into some of the summit stuff study abroad. I know there are so many more being offered so we can check that out. All right we're going to take a little break and listen to some music that's the other kind of thing with this show that I like to kind of show you some new music and some new styles and new genres. Today we're going to be listening to three different tracks from an album and that Hilary Hahn a wonderful violinist did a couple of years back that were all encores. They're all encore length pieces and she received submissions from I think some large number 150 different composers and then she chose just 29 to be on an album and a few of them I think are really interesting. So the first one you're going to hear is light moving and this is composed by David Lang and performed by Hilary Hahn and Corey Smythe and you are right here on Thunder 91.1 K91ɬÂþ.

Lynn Vartan: [00:16:18] All right. Well, that was a piece called light moving and the composer is David Lang and the performers were Hilary Hahn and Corey Smythe and that's off the album 29 encores by Hilary Han. This is Dr. Lynn Vartan and this is the APEX Hour right here on Thunder ninety one point one K91ɬÂþ and I'm in the studio today with Dr. Ravi Roy, our 2018 faculty distinguished scholar. Welcome back. Thank you. So I'd like to get into a little bit of conversation about your awesome talk today and one of the questions I asked on stage. We were talking about. You said your talk has this healthy dose of cynicism and maybe talk a little bit more about that how you view that sort of cynicism and where it comes from I know you alluded to that this morning and then also ways to sort of get out of that and ways we can look for it and maybe just go off on that for a little bit.

Ravi Roy: [00:17:17] So thanks so healthy dose of cynicism I think it's healthy for any democratic republic. I mean this whole basis of you know focus on liberty is that we always need to be concerned about that. On the other hand, where we are now my cynicism in part speaks to the fact of how public trust has been waning and specifically of public trust as a speaks to trust in political institutions and the public sector which seems to not just be towards politicians but also to those in rank and files public service positions. Right. It's always. I mean there's several paradox. I mean one is it's interesting. The kind of from a public point of view the kind of negative attitudes generally towards public education higher education.And yet the private sector demands a college degree for any kind of advancement.

Lynn Vartan: [00:18:19] Exactly.

Ravi Roy: [00:18:20] So that's an interesting thing to me that you would value a degree that the product that we produce and have. In some cases right out the stand for those who are producing the products.

Lynn Vartan: [00:18:36] I really wonder about that because sometimes we think that you know now everybody goes to college and that perhaps that that's not necessarily for everyone. But I don't know. I mean I wonder sometimes about this this commander because of course every organization every business is demanding a cut. Many are demanding a college education but yet there is this distain that is the same in politics. But we're finding in higher ed as well what do we do about that

Ravi Roy: [00:19:10] So that's that's a really good question I think first of all we need to recognize. I think what I'm calling the kind of polyphonic or schizophrenic attitude that we have towards things and trying to understand where that come from because in some cases it's valid and legitimate. In other cases you know it come from an emotional base without thinking through logically what are these views come from. I mean how do I reconcile these apparent contradictions in my own thinking. And you know world PRONTA myself included. Another example of the paradoxes that I tried to bring up there and I'll try to add a little more to it is that since the 1960s we've seen government expanding right but isn't expanding in a vacuum and doing it by Firepower alone. Some of it is but you know we see that with the administrators state and expansion of regulatory power. And there are legitimate concerns about overreach and all the rest of this. I'm not trying to dismiss that out of hand. On the other hand. We expect government. To do more and more for us provide more and more for us and the response of democracy naturally government is going to respond. And it's been growing. Now the paradox is the more government grows in an attempt to meet our expectations during the same period since the 1960s the less happy or satisfied we are with the job the government is doing and we respond by demanding more of government. And the interesting thing to me is is that let's take 9/11 for example when it happened. The criticisms of government were. Some were valid some unfair. Government was asleep at the wheel. Why didn't they know better or why didn't they protect us and all the rest of us. And again I mean you know some of that is valid. So government responds by doing something historic creates an Office of Homeland Security that then becomes the Department of Homeland Security. We're not unique in this. I mean most democracies have some kind of Ministry of Internal Affairs home of errors or whatever we came late to the table with that one I think that goes back to our founding and our healthy suspicion of the idea that we need to some kind of domestic protection. But it does, we empower the NSA to to get involved and try to preemptively protect us. It does. We see the expansion of a new program of TSA and how do we respond to that. We complain about TSA and the kind we have to stand in. And about the job they're doing right. We respond by oftentimes getting upset with the abridgement of our privacy. We get upset with the amount of money that the Homeland Security and its related agencies are taking up of resources. So it's almost as though government can't win. Right. You know we demand these things government respond and then we are. Upset with the job that he's doing. So I'm not saying that government shouldn't work better. I'm not saying that we shouldn't expect government work or it's our tax dollars. At work. To be sure. But then the question becomes and I raised this and that talk as well. If people if people are not willing to give their faith and trust and support government to do these things where does it find the mandate to do them? Yeah. Where are the potency of government come from where the public sector come from. If we're eviscerating higher education and budgets of higher education. What Utah thankfully has done to my mind relatively speaking a wonderful job of protecting higher education because if you look at other states in the union you know it's Michigan or Connecticut right. I mean those are places where. You know it's it's just it's quite sad. We do all right here relatively speaking. But then we're surprised when public higher education higher institutions of education. You know they're not meeting their expectations in terms of the knowledge base for the students that we're creating for them for the for the labor market. Well that seems kind of interesting. You're saying you need this product again. You don't think it should be funded necessarily or are you criticisms about how we fund it and the things that we're doing. But I think part of it is we expect government to fail. If you think about how many businesses private businesses in this country fail. And how much of that slack the public sector takes up in terms of unemployment benefits in terms of our court system with bankruptcy and so on and so forth. I'm not saying government versus business but I'm just saying that there is almost no expectation that government can't work. And then we we criticize government which is fine but then we do very little to try to make it work effectively.

Lynn Vartan: [00:24:25] Yeah I mean that's just such a clear explanation of the problem. Do you have opinions about what could be done better that you'd like to share

Ravi Roy: [00:24:38] Well I think self-awareness is a big part of it to realize that at the end of the day our Constitution is very clear and it is embedded in a philosophy of consent of the governed. So this doesn't mean the day to day every single citizen is going to go to work you know fixing these problems actively but what it does mean is that generally an action is is tantamount to approval. If we really want things to work better we really have to be part of the solution. And part of this is I tried to emphasize there is first of all we need to be aware of our own limitations on our own contradictions and then think about how we can have constructive conversations. Across sectoral lines private sector public sector and look at it as a system that's the first thing that there are not two separate things that are necessarily have to be binary. They can work together and that's an ideological barrier that many of us have to get over.

Lynn Vartan: [00:25:41] But these conversations are challenging they're so hard to have. I mean we were just speaking even about this in faculty senate how to have healthy conversations and how to exchange ideas. And it does seem harder now than it did 10 years ago 12 years ago. What recommendations do you have? I know we touched a little bit on this earlier but I would love some tools to help have these conversations and begin these dialogues to start talking more and interesting conversations curious conversations exchanges of ideas even disparate ideas. How how do we do that.

Ravi Roy: [00:26:25] Yeah unfortunately we've moved increasingly to a place where we have allowed those issues that separate us to dominate our thinking and construct our dialogues force. And as a result the language in which the discourse in which we've communicate with one another for example between political parties. Has become vitriolic. It's become unproductive. It's led to gridlock. And you know once once people start painting the other. As bad people you've automatically shut down the dialogue. Right. If I say well I know you want the best and I do too. We just see things fundamentally differently. Let's have a conversation about that work can we come together on a consensus about first of all what are the problems. What priority. Are those problems because we can say Yeah all these things are important. It's important. Tax reform is important but we need to we need to have a conversation about which things we need to address first which is the most pressing and then be able to have a policy dialogue. It's interesting because one of my colleagues showed that of those people that were interested in issues they voted for Donald Trump. That's one you can argue with that data but that's what he was able to show. But it was interesting and in that study was talking about the issues but no policy content or very little policy content behind those issues. So talking about issues is one factor but getting into a constructive dialogue to the nuts and bolts and the more difficult conversation that beyond ideology of issues and start talking about public policy. Now that's that's something I think that we have a long way to go. Yeah and. You know I am concerned deeply concerned as I shared in my letter I made no bones bones about it that we need to get back to that space that's come.

Lynn Vartan: [00:28:31] I completely agree that's a great way. That's a great way of putting it. It's true. It seems maybe easier to have these ideological conversations but but exactly right without constructive discussion of policy to actually try to fix something where where are we. OK well it's time for another little musical break and we're going to revisit that Hilary Hahn and Corey Smith album and the piece that we're going to listen to again this is the violin and piano encore type piece so short and sweet if you will. And this one is called Ford's farm and the composer is Mason Bates and you are listening to K91ɬÂþ you thunder ninety one point one.

Lynn Vartan: [00:31:32] K and that was Ford's farm and the composer of that piece is Mason Bates and the performance where Hilary Hahn and Corey Smythe and Hilary Hahn' 29 encores. Which is just a fantastic album. All of encores that she commissioned and chose from a pool of over 100. And then put together with the great pianist Corey Smythe. I'm Dr. Lynn Vartan and we are back here in the studio with Dr. Ravi Roy who is our apex speaker today. And this is K91ɬÂþ thunder ninety one point one. Welcome back. And we're just continuing this great conversation about trust in the political arena and now topics of democracy and global awareness and global politics. I was curious, you know it's kind of you were saying if we don't fix something then the potential for democracy to go away is a real threat. Could you talk a little bit about that danger a little more and then maybe. Are there any models in history that we should be looking at as hey watch out. This is getting close. Or hey this is one we should really check out and try to mimic.

Ravi Roy: [00:32:53] So I think it's first important to look at this conceptually that the. That the end goal is liberty. Democracy as a means to an end not an end. We've seen throughout history the most tyrannical regimes come about through democratic elections. Right.

Lynn Vartan: [00:33:12] You can see this and that's just that's an amazing statement. I mean the gravity and that is something.

Ravi Roy: [00:33:18] Yeah populism fascism. These all things can result through a populist campaigns where there is not a consensus a middle of the road consensus and I'm not saying that we're there yet. Thankfully yes. But this trend we're on this direction we're headed where we are refusing to have a consensus and a discussion across party lines where you know I remember it was a huge thing back in the 90s when there was a government shutdown and Obama came in and there was more government shutdowns of well could be again. Some people would say that these kinds of impasse are the natural tension that exists between separation of powers. But I think the emphasis should be on the word system. This is not it's a system of separation of powers. It's not. It is to a certain extent. Separation but it's also more about separate institutions that ought to be sharing powers and sharing consensus. Right. And I am concerned. That. That mindset. Isn't there. I mean it seems like the political parties which now control the agendas in Congress rather than the congressional leadership as it used to be are more concerned with derailing the opposing sides agenda than they are trying to find a consensus to work together even if they don't get everything they want. All right. They're more concerned with inhibiting the other and destroying that agenda than they are about saying OK now what kinds of things I mean things are dead on. You legislation bills are literally pronounced dead on arrival simply because they're coming from the other side.

Lynn Vartan: [00:35:14] It's scary.

Ravi Roy: [00:35:15] And that is not who we are. That's certainly not what's. Know we got to remember this Republic Democratic Republic is a wondrous. And amazing experiment. And that's exactly what it is. It's also extremely fragile. If we are not careful I was mentioning in my lecture we owe so much to the French and French ideas for our notions of liberty and about the things that underpin it and those things are well recognizable in our Constitution. But I would also remind people that the French are on their fifth republic. Were on our first republic. And so there's no there's no guarantee right. It's not axiomatic that this is who this has been maintained through a conscious and deliberate effort to. And some kids love sacrificed to keep us right and we shouldn't squander that legacy in my opinion.

Lynn Vartan: [00:36:17] How close to the precipice do you think we are. Do you think we're we're we should be concerned very concerned. Moderately concerned. What do you think or do. I mean it's OK if you don't want to comment on that as well of course.

Ravi Roy: [00:36:34] As An academic And most academic Scott the last election prediction wrong. So I'm saying this in all humility. I don't like to give timelines or definitive things on them at this time but I will say this on. A major crisis which could come up at any point. Could certainly. Hasten the pace towards the wrong wrong wrong direction. And if we're not careful we need to be you know Madison warned us about this during trying times that you know factional interests will seek to maximize their own side at the expense of the republic. He was he was deeply and yet at the same time recognized that factions were a reality and part of the process too. So he got that balance but I think we need to recognize that and not take it for granted. I think we need to be vigilant and concerned that it's the Republic first or our identity is we're Americans and we can be Democrats Republicans and apparels libertarians whatever you want to call it. And that's you know that's absolutely fine that's part of you know. Freedom of speech and that's you know the idea that we should feel free to disagree but that needs to be tempered. It's not something that can be quashed by government either by law. You can't just make a policy. You know that's an abridgement of freedom. So this really has to come organically. It has to be a self check and that comes with self-awareness introspection and. But I will just say yes I am concerned. And that's why I gave today's talk is to try to awaken a spirit of self-awareness among our undergraduates to say look you've been handed something extremely valuable. That did not come without sacrifice. Where people put their own discrete immediate interest secondary to the good of a republic over time and where we have been careless not to do that. We have seen the fall out of that and just be aware of that.

Lynn Vartan: [00:38:46] All right. Great great advice and I think that many people got got that message and especially the messages of generosity and charity. We got into a little bit of that as well. You mentioned the French and the several constitutions. How do you what do you think about that in relation because some people have said well it's hey it's time for a rewrite. You know every good script needs a rewrite. Once in a while would you be academically or even personally in favor of a constitutional rewrite at this point.

Ravi Roy: [00:39:21] The genius of the Founders is that they understood that. And they included within the Constitution itself Article 5 which provides a way to be able to update the constitution. Now. In their genius they also made sure that it would require a broad consensus of the kind that I'm talking about. Do that right. It can't be just one narrow faction that thing. I'm not happy. Let's throw up the whole thing because I'm not happy temporarily on so. But if but the only way if people are generally unhappy with say for example the Electoral College on which is a concern that's being echoed on both the left on the right. At times there is a way to amend Article 2 of the Constitution and it's through the amendment process of Article 5. But again that's going to require a broader coming together of a middle of the road consensus on how to do that and then and building that. And we're. I don't think because of the nature of the dialogue that we're having. Where they are so. Frightfully spiteful and dumb and derogatory and accusatory that we can have those kinds of serious discussions and that's problematic.

Lynn Vartan: [00:40:43] Yeah absolutely. Also are there any models that you feel historically or currently that really have it correct. I mean that we should be looking at and saying hey these guys are doing a really good job. Any any good models that we should be taking a look at a closer look at.

Ravi Roy: [00:41:05] So every democracy is going to have its share of problems on the nature of our single member districts which are gerrymandered creates an untenable situation where you have lifelong politicians who appears in some cases or you know manipulating that system to be able to remain in power for as long as possible which in and of itself you know the idea of long tenure is not solve the problem but the motivation behind it is if your purpose is to bring expertise and help to build stability. And you know that system lends itself to that. That's one thing but motivation is simply to remain in power for the sake of power particularly so that you know you can get in line with a particular faction that is hell bent on preventing constructive dialogue. And that actually serves. Your interest of staying in power for the sake of power. I think that that's not particularly a good thing.

Lynn Vartan: [00:42:09] Great. OK well more great discussion here and we are about ready for our last musical break of the hour. And again we're you're here on I can see you thunder ninety one point one and this will be my last sample from the Hilary Hahn album. And Hilary Hahn is a great violinist who's paired with Corey Smythe on this encore album. And this last piece I'm in a play for you is called memories and the composer is Michiru Oshima. And again this is K91ɬÂþ thunder ninety one point one.

Lynn Vartan: [00:46:28] All right. Welcome back. This is the apex hour. My name is Dr. Len. And you're listening to KSEE youth Pandor ninety one point one. That last song that you heard was titled memories. The composer is me Oshima and that is from the album Hilary Hind encores where her great violinist Hilary Hahn plays with Corey Smyth. I'm definitely just one of my all time favorite violinists and a great album to listen to. We're in the studio finishing out the APEX hour with Dr. Ravi Roy who is our 2018 faculty distinguished lecturer and like to save the last ten minutes for some fun stuff to kind of talk a little bit about things that make you happy. So what kind of music do you like to listen to.

Ravi Roy: [00:47:20] I think the word is eclectic. Ok so I'm a big fan of the Foo Fighters. Oh cool. Yeah love the Smashing Pumpkins and worms. Heartbroken in the early 2000s one late 1990s when they said they were going to disband because they couldn't compete with the Backstreet Boys and one of my favorite bands is New Order and Joy Division. You know that come from the punk rock of the Dolls and The Ramones and yes to this. But I've always been a big sting and police van Goodwell particularly as Sting has taken that band. No post kind of Andy Summers right. More jazz kind of stuff and a more sophisticated sound. So yeah. Always enjoyed them out of practicality. I've had to amend my tastes to fit that of my daughters who are huge Katy Perry fans and Chern fans so I have to start now enjoying a wider array of music so less Depeche Mode more Katy Perry.

Lynn Vartan: [00:48:31] That's fantastic. That's great. Do you have music on in the home. Very much I know. In your talk you talked about left for all of us less TV. Are you a TV watcher or your music listener or what's kind of the soundtrack in your house. So.

Ravi Roy: [00:48:49] Yeah. So again you know it's it's pretty much what my kids like. Oftentimes although they would probably disagree with that. They think if I get one song and somehow some kind of earthshattering for them to. No but everybody seems to like pitbulls so it's one of the common thread. We can all agree goes.

Lynn Vartan: [00:49:16] How about books. Are you a reader or do you read. I mean I know some academic minded people read purely academic some like half of there are mysteries you know by the bed that they read. What what's on your bookshelf these days.

Ravi Roy: [00:49:32] Well I think I'm to be completely honest with you if you were to ask me this question a month ago to be purely academic stuff related to my field of study but I made a conscious decision the euro to widen my mind reading my reading table reading a really excellent book right now. That is the autobiography of a Russian priest Russian Orthodox priest. Who documents the trials and tribulations of growing up under Soviet communism and the atrocities that were committed out there and the endurance and the lack of political freedom lack of religious freedom that they experienced. And it's really kind of put things in perspective about how much again I mean on so many levels of on a personal level how thankful. To be living in this country where we. Don't have to worry about such things but also a thankfulness for the blessings that we have and also a kind of reminder of that. Again this is a marvelous and wonderful republic in which we live and we need to be vigilant and making sure that it stays that way. Yeah just a reminder on so many. It's also an inspiration of the human spirit right and the dedication of one man's faith in this faith of his family and enduring all of the title deeds on earth we're just now learning to live for something to this earth.

Lynn Vartan: [00:50:57] We're just now learning to live. Wow what a great title. That's cool. And do you have anything upcoming book wise that you're really excited to read next.

Ravi Roy: [00:51:09] To be honest with you just so I can understand you know because like I said you know I was a political scientist were always asked to make predictions. From a strategic point of view I never had any really inclination to read The Art of the deal but I think I'm going to. just to see what the what the strategic thinking is behind those who I'm paid to study about grains.

Lynn Vartan: [00:51:34] That's a good one everybody should dig into at some point you call them. What about some memorable advice that you've been given. The best advice that somebody ever gave you. Do you have anything that comes to mind. Well one time I got to see Charlton Heston at a talk show. Were.

Ravi Roy: [00:51:57] We were guests of Rick Dees back in the day and 20 years. I'll never forget it. You know you just hear that voice of God you know from rationalises right. Exactly. But he had some good advice on that show that I'll never be in this 25 years ago I said. His father told him do your best keep your promises. Your best keep your promise. That's great. You know and I don't always live up to that sadly but. I don't I try to remind myself. Do your best keep your promise.

Lynn Vartan: [00:52:25] That's fantastic. And would that be the advice that you would give to undergraduates now or is there something maybe two things or one thing that that you wish you had known as an undergraduate that you might impart to our undergraduates or young people today.

Ravi Roy: [00:52:47] So be nice to your professors. Yes. Amen. Good job and I tell my I tell my students you know I may not be the professor you want but on the professor I wish I had.

Lynn Vartan: [00:53:00] Love that.

Ravi Roy: [00:53:02] Yeah I mean it's it's it's and value this time. Don't just take your classes to tick a box and get a grade on. It really is a remarkable thing. The luxury for example when you take a political science class we take a music class that you cause you'll never have this time in your life again. I know they don't believe that but it's absolutely true. Right. Even if you're working you're working for yourself right now unless you have a family and we do have a lot of nontraditional stints. I'm saying this mainly to the kind of traditional undergraduate students who you know and I get this we were all there you know we got a paper to write and we don't really know we take the test. But. I'm saying that from personal experience I wish. Particularly in my g studies. Had spent more time in the humanities for and I took a class at UCLA on the humanities rather Iliad. And. Other Texts. Henry David Thoreau and I got through them fine but I really now see where the value. Of those things come in. Right. And you know and this is someone where day to day I worked put food on the table in practical ways but there is something about the aesthetics that you know make us better people make us more inquisitive make us search for deeper meaning that in return helps drives us forward in more meaningful ways. That's the advice that I give embrace that experience because you'll never have a chance until you retire. Or to go back and do those things and who wants to wait. You know from the time you're in your 20s all the way all the time you retire to enjoy these things.

Lynn Vartan: [00:54:41] So true. Great advice. I say the same thing. Same thing to students. It's hard to believe but you you won't ever have as much time as you have right now. As hard as that is to believe and my last parting question to you is what do you think is the most exciting thing in your field right now what are you most excited about.

Ravi Roy: [00:55:05] Well I'm in the area mainly of Politics and Public Management. And for me the idea to to encourage people to service this is this is really a remarkable thing and to think about as leaders and managers whether it's public sector or private it really doesn't matter to create value for that organization and for those working in their. Profits will come if an organization is managed well. So much of the time we focus on managing people. We forget that the real. The real value. And the ability to create value is really. About. The system of the organization. And so I encourage my students to think on a kind of deeper level how to motivate people how to create value in the lives of the people that they're working with colleagues. That's why. That's you. You are such a. Marvelous place to work. And I'm not just saying that because I'm here I chose to come back here I was away for 12 years I chose to come back. Her education in general. And this is true in this country other countries can oftentimes be unpleasant places to work because the the departments the separation between administration faculty and students are so subtle. But here we have a common mission which is to create value for the students and that allows us to work together for that purpose and we put aside a lot of the petty kind of arguments that you see in some traditional places. You know I think it was on Nixon's national security adviser became secretary of state. But anyway he when he left the administration worked back in universities said. No the reason why academic politics is so nasty is because the stakes are so low. Well in our case here the stakes are high because our sticks are the students and creating value for them. And what that common purpose and common mission that really helps define for us what we're all about. We don't have time for petty squabbles and this kind of thing not that we agree on everything and not that everything is perfect all the time but it's a very civilized place that's a very welcoming place it's very collegial place. And I I mean I can think of a better place to work because of that.

Lynn Vartan: [00:57:35] Well what a great note to end on. I'd like to thank you so much for your time today. And again you've been listening to Dr. Ravi right here on the apex hour. I am Lynn Vartan. And I am your host. And with that we're going to say good bye for this week and we'll see you next week right here 3:00 p.m. K91ɬÂþ Thunder 91.1

[00:00:01] Hey everyone. This is Lynn Vartan and you are listening to the apex hour on 91ɬÂþ's Thunder 91.1 In this show you get more personal time with the guests who visit Southern Utah University from all over, learning more about their stories and opinions beyond their presentations on stage. We will also give you some new music to listen to and hope to turn you on to new music. You can find us here every Thursday at 3:00 p.m. on the web at suu.edu/apex. Or e-mail us at suuapex@icloud.com But for now, welcome to this week's show here no Thunder 91.1.

Lynn Vartan: [00:00:52] Right. Well good afternoon everyone. This is Lynn Vartan and you are listening to the apex hour here on Thunder nin91.1. We had a great event this morning. It was our 91ɬÂþSA roundtable discussion where we had four of our Southern Utah University senators come in and talk about the state of the Union and we had a great discussion about things like parking and things like midterm grades and the possibility of that and just kind of how the government runs from a student perspective. You usually will have those guests in the studio for the radio show right now at 3:00 p.m. but the senators were all preoccupied with other meetings. So it gave me a chance to have a host choice for the day and that means we're going to talk about music. So I have a couple of guests here in the studio and one faculty member who's going to join us pretty soon. And I think I'll let them just kind of introduce themselves George and let's start with you.

Jordan Nielsen: [00:02:00] Hi I'm Jordan Neilsen. I'm a senior here and my major is percussion performance. So all things Strawn's and all that fun stuff. And I'm from Richfield Utah. So pretty close to home.

Lynn Vartan: [00:02:15] Yeah. And we could sing Jordan's praises for a long time. Jordan also is our graphic designer and marketing manager for Apex events so all the flyers and posters that you see around campus are his come from his brain and his awesome creativity. So welcome to Jordan. Thank you. And we also have Alex in the studio. Ali I want to introduce yourself.

Alex Dipasquale: [00:02:40] Yeah my name is Alexandra DiPasquale. I'm from France. So I'm new here. As for you I'm a music major and I've studied from seven years now drums and I'm here also to learn a lot of precautions instruments.

Lynn Vartan: [00:02:59] Yeah I could talk about Alex for a whole hour about his positive energy that he's brought to the music program. We thought it'd be really interesting to have Jordan and Alex talk a little bit about music and we're also going to have Dr.Bohnenstengel who is originally from Germany joining us and we thought we'd talk about kind of all the different types of music education and all the different types of stories that brought you all to you. So Alex tell me a little bit more about how how you came to music and you know a little bit about the system of music education in France so came to music.

[00:03:39] It's funny because I was 14 years old. There was a party in France was my it always starts with a party right. Funny because I remember was we my friends and we just went to my friends room and there were guitar and just a snare drum and I promise I just fell in love with this. I just sold this drum. And since this moment I never stopped to play. That's was true love at first sight.

Lynn Vartan: [00:04:19] So tell me about your education.

Alex Dipasquale: [00:04:22] So you took some private lessons you took some courses from 15 years old to 20 years old. I was a self educated and yeah 20 years old. I studied in private school just cooling friends two years where I obtained my kind of performer diploma as a drummer percussionist as a drummer. So this cool was really focused on play learn learn jazz play jazz and also about fury. Your tuning rules you hear some rhythm. I would like to see more focus on the play not just the play of the music and so then how did it come that you ended up here.

Lynn Vartan: [00:05:23] Why Southern Utah. I mean it wasn't for music originally if I remember right.

Alex Dipasquale: [00:05:28] I remember it was just during summer I was talking with my friends and we talked about music and they said well you know the United States the big place for music and that's it. And that's just. Oh yeah. I just thought maybe it could be good a good thing to me. So three years ago I started to search for an organization to come here. And I found one which is go campus. So during one year I can I say build my my folder Yeah. And at the end the organization proposed to me nine choices nine universities.

[00:06:22] Oh I see based on your. Exactly.

Alex Dipasquale: [00:06:24] Exactly. And also about my major in the program that I wanted to follow in the United States and 91ɬÂþ was the best one of those nine choices one great music program. Oh wow.

Lynn Vartan: [00:06:40] Yeah that's good to hear. Yeah well we'll get into a little bit more but we're so happy you're here since you've been here. Can you tell us the groups that you've performed in and what you're doing now and before.

Alex Dipasquale: [00:06:57] When I started the drums I played a lot of punk rock the beginning. I played is around five six bands around this kind of music and around my when I was 19 years old I started to play and practice and Neur and funk music and jazz and that's why I went in in this private school in France and I really love jazz. I was really interested by the music and also about all the different kinds of music connected with the jazz like love and music fusion rock and that's why I wanted to. Keep going in this way and return. No just a music by the drums but other precautions instruments right.

Lynn Vartan: [00:07:57] And I think you told me because one of the first things you did here was join the marching band. Yes yes yes yes. I'm remembering this story right. You had a picture of a drum line or.

Alex Dipasquale: [00:08:09] Yeah two pictures in my bedroom. The drum line and I remember a so lot of marching performance also contest competence competitions. And I remember I just wanted to buy a snare drum with the horns. Yeah but I could not because I could not find any friends. Yeah. Weren't you calling friends and yeah went to when I came here. I just wanted to at least see the marching band and we had to join it.

Lynn Vartan: [00:08:45] Then you ended up being one of our snare drummers for the fall season. Well great. And now you're participating in jazz band Wind Symphony percussion ensemble and of course taking private lessons. Yes oh that's great. That's awesome really. Well turning to Jordan now. Tell us a little bit about your story. How did you get from there to here.

Jordan Nielsen: [00:09:07] My my musical journey if you want to call it started when I was eight and we got a piano in our house and my mom my mom sign me up for piano lessons and I took them for about three years and I absolutely hated every single one of them.

[00:09:24] I know.

Jordan Nielsen: [00:09:26] And I still like playing piano. I had family members played piano that kept it that kept it going and then I started self teaching basically so I would look up how to play things or things like fingering charts and stuff about music on piano or find any piece that I wanted to play. And so that kept me going and I like a lot of music students. I joined this band in middle school in sixth grade and I started out by playing the trumpet and was not very good even when I said when I was entering high school I had the same teacher from middle school band and high school band and he walked up to me and he said hey you should try percussion. And I was like OK. So I started by doing bass drum and marching band. The summer before I started high school and I kept going with a. And about halfway through my freshman year of high school he walked up to me and said I'm really glad you're doing percussion because you were really bad trumpet player. So you know make lemonade out of lemons.

Lynn Vartan: [00:10:32] Yeah exactly. Exactly.

Jordan Nielsen: [00:10:34] So and it turned out for the best because now it's given means the best opportunities in my life. So I kept doing percussion throughout high school percussion ensemble concert band stuff and drumline and marching band stuff like that until I ended up here and through lessons and stuff like that I've just played and everything I wanted to. That's right.

Lynn Vartan: [00:10:56] Do you have a favorite. I mean I get asked this all the time. Do you have a favorite instrument that you like to play or favorite style of music.

Jordan Nielsen: [00:11:05] Not necessarily. I always gravitate to the marimba like you know and for people that don't know it's basically a large xylophone. I always gravitate towards it. But. After several years here I just kind of like playing percussion. You know I just want to play music and find all the cool pieces I can and just you know whatever piqued my interest I want to pursue that.

Lynn Vartan: [00:11:30] Perfect. Well speaking of music and one of the things we like to do with the show is play some different things. So last week we played some violin and piano music. But this week I thought we'd go for some larger ensemble stuff and I think I heard a rumor that maybe the jazz band is playing a song called there's the rub. That looks like a lot. Oh yeah. So let's take a listen to that. This is there's the rub performed by the Gordon Goodwin big band here on Thunder ninety one point one. The. Right. Well that was there's the rub. By the Gordon Goodwin big band and you were listening here to the apex hour on KSD youth ninety one point one of my musical friends in the House today. You got Alex and Jordan and we are now joined by Dr. Christian Bohnenstengel.

Dr. Bohnenstengel: [00:18:02] Welcome. Thanks for having me.

Lynn Vartan: [00:18:04] Tell us a little bit just to kind of catch up in the last before the last break we talked about where where these guys are from and how they came to be here. What's your story.

Dr. Bohnenstengel: [00:18:14] Well it's a long story. I grew up in Germany and southern Germany. Mr. Deckard is my main city. It's close to Munich. I basically came to the U.S. as an exchange student. More or less and I stuck around and finished my graduate degrees and here I am and you know that's great. That was a very short version.

Dr. Bohnenstengel: [00:18:38] And I mean of course I know what you do here at 91ɬÂþ. But tell the audience that's listening. What do you do here. I teach piano and all piano related courses including the piano sambal piano literature piano pedagogy and so on and of course in the music department we are very active performing. So Lintott I have performed together in a couple different occasions. I was in the faculty jazz combo. We have a couple of guest artists coming in in two weeks. I have ensured I Mueller who's going to be a flutist and I will be joined by two colleagues from Dixie and a string trio performance. Oh great. Coming up in February.

Lynn Vartan: [00:19:18] And we can find out those we can find out on either Suu calendaring site. Just looking at music events or of course on the music department Web site. So if you guys want to check it out that's SC dot edu slash music and the upcoming events will be on there. So it's great. Well I wanted to talk a little bit since we've got Germany represented France represented and the U.S. representing just about the different kinds of academic styles or how schooling is different. So can you talk about Christian your experience and how you know high school and college music is different from Germany to hear.

[00:19:58] Well the biggest difference is that we don't have music performance in the public schools. V have music as a subject as an academic subject in schools. But what you learn as music theory music history the performance side is based in the village itself it's like a sports club. You have basically music clubs. So each village has a band. Each village has a choir and so on. So we actually don't have school as well which is very limited. But each city has music schools a music school system and oftentimes orchestras and bands come out of that. So that is something that is quite a bit quite a big difference. And so when we start college it's kind of expected that you have a good background of music theory and music history in the U.S. it's more expected that you have a performance background but you kind of start from scratch with music theory music history.

Lynn Vartan: [00:20:50] Oh wow that's really different. And then if you study music at university is it in a private music school conservatory or in college.

Dr. Bohnenstengel: [00:21:02] You have the music conservatories are actually state schools. But it depends whether you go into music education a level of music education or if you go into performance. So if you would be doing piano performance you would go to a conservatory that's usually part of a state university system. So it's a conservatory of music off the University of streetcar for example. And they are south self-governing but they are part of that bigger umbrella. If you teach or if you study piano pedagogy for example or I guess music education would be the broader term you would go to different types of schools it wouldn't be a conservatory but it's called pedagogues horseshoe. They had to go out to Schickele university because often in smaller cities and really geared towards elementary middle school teachers I say makes sense.

Lynn Vartan: [00:21:53] And Alex how does that compare to France.

Jordan Nielsen: [00:21:56] A little bit a little bit the same. First of all I never studied in public school, music. I started on my own and yes. The main establishment for music in France is Conservatories. And there is some but not too much private school in France to learn and play with people. Popular music, jazz etc.. But yeah if you will if you try to obtain your degree for music education or become a teacher or everything it's principle to be in universities and conservatories in universities you can just learn. Kind of theory, history of music. It's called if I remember. I guess music history or something of that theory are interesting. I'm not really sure the right program right.

Lynn Vartan: [00:23:10] So Jordan what's your reaction to that. Because it's totally different your experience I mean you went through it in the public school starting from a young age.

Jordan Nielsen: [00:23:19] Yeah I mean just not think or not having any sort of choir or band or orchestra or anything like that in any public school is very weird to me. That was a very common thing. I I remember being in like kindergarten in first grade and my entire class would put on musical programs that was a common thing like how we'd program a Christmas something right. But it's not common for people to know theory or history right. You know that. Which is you know that's very college intensive in the US. Yeah and I mean I wouldn't have learned any theory or history unless our school lucked out and got an AP music theory class my senior year. But without that I wouldn't have had any knowledge prior to that. All right. Yeah that's.

Lynn Vartan: [00:24:14] Yeah. Interesting. Well let's shift gears and talk a little bit about our dreams and you know or things we really want to do in music. So starting with you guys who are still in school. What what are your dreams like Jordan where do you want to be 10 years from now like you're getting a music degree in music performance and what what's your dream job.

Jordan Nielsen: [00:24:37] The ultimate goal is actually university teaching.

Lynn Vartan: [00:24:41] You want my job I know!

Jordan Nielsen: [00:24:44] So in ten years you should step to the side. No, that that really is my ultimate goal because I enjoy I enjoy the environment I enjoy the higher level thinking I enjoy the individualized projects that people can do. And I love the idea of being able to perform on the side also. So it's you know it's very similar to what you're doing where it's performance and education. But I I. I am very encouraged by the idea of music education also. You know it brings a lot to the world that no one really thinks about there's a lot of joy and happiness brought out to people's lives because of music education especially in lower education. But I love being able to help push that forward with other people.

Lynn Vartan: [00:25:35] Well that's a beautiful sentiment. I mean that's a great reason to go into education. ALEX How about you. What's your 10 year plan. What do you want to do.

Alex Dipasquale: [00:25:45] Perform everywhere. Everyone Yeah I really try try to meet and learn different culture play with different people with no other culture. That's why I'm here. It's the first step. But this is a big step to me and yeah for the next ten years I just want to play move everywhere and try to just play music. That's great. Probably because I taught a little bit in my private school friends maybe after. Me become kind of educator probably.

Lynn Vartan: [00:26:29] So you Might want to get into education later. Yeah yeah. But you want to be a rock star in the meantime. I know. And Christian I mean you've got this great position here but what do you have musical dreams that you still have yet to fulfill. I'm living the dream.

Dr. Bohnenstengel: [00:26:52] But I know that's one of the great things about the university setting that you have is just a lot