[00:00:02] Hey everyone. Lynn Vartan and you are listening to the apex hour. on K91ɬÂþ Thunder 91.1. In this show you get more personal time with the guests who visit Southern Utah University from all over. Learning more about their stories and opinions beyond their presentations on stage. We will also give you some new music to listen to and hope to turn you onto new sounds and new genres. You Can find us here every Thursday at 3:00p.m. or on the web at suu.edu/apex. But For now welcome to this week's show here on Thunder 91.1.
[00:00:46] OK. Well welcome to the apex hour. I am so excited for this week. We are a little bit sweaty and a little bit tired but we are definitely not hungry. That's for sure. And this was our first official kickoff event of the semester and we are celebrating Hispanic Heritage Month and we have an amazing guest with us who's been in residence for the last couple of days. Welcome to Gustavo Arellano. Thank you for being here. Gracias for having me.
[00:01:15] And thank you for being a part of the radio show. You are full I'm sure to the brim because we just sampled some of the tacos from our local restaurants. And do you have some thoughts and impressions.
[00:01:28] I come from Southern California which is the land of tacos of course and we always assume that no one can do tacos better than us. But I am very happy to found out that here in Cedar City have so full I can't talk anymore that there's good tacos here. There are really good tacos I mean we went to El Toro Loco we went to Brody's we went to La Casa Don Miguel I would recommend each and every one for different reasons but they're all good.
[00:01:56] That's right. So you guys that are listening you know that we've got good tacos here in Cedar City and just another shout out to those great restaurants who hosted. We basically loaded up four different vehicles full of students and faculty and administrators and did a taco run. We had a little voting cards and said we're going to tally those later today.
[00:02:18] Definitely one of the most unique college experiences I've ever had in my life. When by unique I mean awesome.
[00:02:23] That's great. Well I'm so glad you did time. You also spent some time talking with us at the actual event today which is great and I'd love to get into you know just some more details and maybe get a little deeper into some of the topics we were going at. We started talking about writing and do you have an article that that or let's go out this way. Do you have a writer who really inspires you.
[00:02:47] Well my Lord there's so many. I mean in the past. Mark Twain. John Steinbeck you know in journalism you get. What's his name. Tom Wolfe may rest in peace. Gay Talese and in the present day you have her named Jillian Lapore from the New Yorker who did this amazing book about the history of Wonder Woman. Awesome awesome writer Jillian Lapore. You get people A.C. Thompson right for Pro Publica online news agency about white supremacist groups and all that there's just so much great writing out there and the great thing of this day and age of the internet like you could find it almost anywhere.
[00:03:22] Right exactly. And we want to also give a plug for all the great writing that you've done and so those of you who may not be as familiar with Gustavo's work. We definitely have been celebrating. Two of your books we've been celebrating Ask a Mexican. We can talk more about that and also Taco USA How Mexican Food Conquered the World. You know that's really great but you have another book that is more of a personal story for you.
[00:03:48] Yeah that was my second book ORANGE COUNTY A Personal History came out 2008 a decade ago. Wow. How time flies. And it was half history of Orange County the way influence the rest of the United States through say religion through politics through pop culture whatever. But it's also half memoir of my family's own history going back and forth between Mexico and Anaheim where I was born and raised and where my. I'm the only sibling. I'm the only sibling that left Anaheim. I went just down the freeway to Santana. Like not even that far away.
[00:04:22] And do you have a large family.
[00:04:24] We're only four children are four siblings. We were the small family of all my cousins and my cousins are like you know minimum six the largest one from my oldest aunt was 12. I have like over 100 first cousins and that's just on my mom's side and yeah. And we all and almost all of us ended up in Anaheim almost all of us almost all of my cousins are still in Anaheim one way or another so I I talked to them all as I'm.
[00:04:48] Yeah. And how is the experience compare. I mean as a family coming from Mexico at the time when you do in your experience and how does that compare to what's going on now. I'm sure you have lots.
[00:05:05] Oh that's a whole class. But when my dad came to this country in the trunk of a Chevy in 1968. Back then no one cared. No one demonized him some people complained but whatever my dad became a carpet cutter then he became a truck driver eventually became an American citizen because of the amnesty of President Reagan 1986 and that's what allowed us to become. I mean my parents just paid off their mortgage after 30 years the whole American Dream I owned a house. My other sister owns a house and people say in this day and age and especially in Southern California young people can't own houses. Well we do. We're not rich we just scrimped and saved and whatever. Now of course you have a lot of people who were undocumented and have. Right now you don't see any future for them getting any sort of legalization. You have a president a Republican president who demonizes such immigrants every step of the way. It's interesting because I'm doing an article for The Columbia Journalism Review about Telemundo and Univision on the two biggest Spanish language networks in the United States. And so they asked specifically about the news. And so they're what's called NOCCA Noticiero their main newscast they both have the same DNA. In a previous broadcast that no longer exists when that newscast debuted in 1981 it started off with a taped message from President Ronald Reagan in English saying like I'm glad I'm proud of the Hispanic population this country. You would not see that today at all. Which to me. I think it's unfortunate because this country has always been built on immigration legal and illegal people for the most part don't care. You know I think people just care. Are you going to be good neighbors or you get to contribute to this country if you can go for it from wherever you are in the world.
[00:06:43] Yeah. In the current climate. Do you see any answer for us. I mean do you see any way for...
[00:06:51] I don't know. I you know I believe this administration follows what people say in his mouth to his ear. And if someone told him the next day if you had amnesty it would bring wonders to you and you would be hailed as a god. In Mexico he would do it in a heartbeat. I think all we could do for those of us who do stand with immigrants is continue to tell those stories and for those immigrants themselves you've got to have hope. If you don't have hope then you don't have anything you have to have a hope that somewhere at some point things are going to get better.
[00:07:21] Yeah well that's actually a very positive take. I mean I love that.
[00:07:25] You have to be an optimist which is funny because in journalism we're all cynics we know how everything operates. We like the real journalists like I have no political affiliation. I haven't. I haven't been politically affiliated since Godz since I was a teenager. I think my first election I vote I went Democrat that doesn't mean I don't vote for Democrat or Republican but I know both parties have their problems especially in Southern California the Democrats in some ways are worse than the Republicans just because they should know better. But that said you have to again if you don't have hope then what is there like at that point that's when you go off into the forest and become a caveman. I don't know.
[00:08:03] Well we don't want that.
[00:08:05] Mountain man. There we go.
[00:08:06] But one of the things that I think you have found in your writing is the great ambassador of food. I mean and you talk a lot how Mexican food has become in a way an ambassador for the U.S. and that's a very beautiful sentiment. Can you talk a little more about that and maybe how food has always been an ambassador. I know there's this idea of food gets you a place at the table you know maybe tell some stories about that part of it.
[00:08:32] We all have to we we all want to eat good food Americans at this point. know Mexican food can be very very delicious. So they go out and seek it. And what's amazing to me like just going through our little taco run in Cedar City you had these families They for a lot you know all stereotype right now. But for a lot of folks in Cedar City the the most interaction they'll have with Latinos will probably be at their Mexican restaurant and so here you see hardworking families giving you good food and it's a lot it's a lot of burden for the families themselves. But still like there one gentleman who said you know we're proud to be representing Latinos here through our food. And it's a great thing because then you get a positive experience off of it. Then you start thinking well the food's good and the Mexicans that I know they're good too. Maybe what they're telling me on a nightly news about like gangs and cartels. Maybe that's not necessarily true. So that's a step and then more importantly if you're if you're sorry if I hear I'm thinking we're just having a conversation at a restaurant said Radio which means is going good. But if you're eating out of place and there's strangers next to you but you're sharing the same food eventually you're going to look at each other and maybe you might say oh yeah that's like really good salsa right. And you start having conversations about food food is a safe space. I would argue for many people to be able to express themselves. And so when you have that power what do you do with it. I argue you have conversations you have conversations and you know you're at a table so you know it's a safe space you can have disagreements that's perfectly fine. But remember you're sharing your meal enjoy enjoy and allow the other person to enjoy their meal as well.
[00:10:13] And historically that's the same right. Even if you go back to the Spaniards then all of those wasn't it There were accommodations made and things happening because of the food and exchanges and I know you talk a lot about that in your book better. Is there a particular story that kind of illustrates that connection even early on historically that you can think of.
[00:10:35] With food your food is a grand gathering places of cultures. People take this people give that little you know little by little in Mexico for instance probably the best approximation would be tacos al pastor is pork on a spit with a pineapple on top the juices are really really good. Well that tradition is called Al Pastor or means Shepard and it comes from the tradition of Lebanese and Armenians who came to Mexico in the 1920s and they brought their shawarma tradition and shawarma if you don't know it's a giant cylinder of meat. Usually like lamb and beef or chicken not pork of course. And then you just slowly twirling around. Yeah at some point these immigrants came to Mexico. They know the Mexicans there they got their tradition from them. They made something completely different and better. I would argue I love shawarma don't get me wrong but tacos al pastor just a evolution of shawarma
[00:11:30] Yeah. One of the things we didn't get a chance to talk about earlier today was salsa and so maybe we could have a little exploration of salsa. So you know in the book I mean salsa is kind of a later thing. Right. 40s 50s maybe as an emergence.
[00:11:48] In mass production. Yes. You always had hot sauce Tabasco of course. Going back then remember folks Tabasco is a state in Mexico it is named after the basket Pepper a Mexican pepper so even though it's Cajun to the max is also Mexican to the max. But what's interesting at least with the evolution of the Hot part of Mexican food. It originally started with chili powder chili powder was first sold en masse by a German immigrant named William Gebhart who lived in New Braunfels which at the point was like a German suburb. I didn't know San Antonio of San Antonio. Now it's a bedroom community but for a long time it was a German colony and in the early 1900s. And then you start seeing chili peppers being sold in a can. And then once you start seeing the actual saw salsa and hot sauces that would be like Pace would be Victorio at the 1930s and slowly but surely. But then it really started exploding with the 60s onward to the point that now America salsa is America's top selling condiment and has been outselling ketchup now for about 25 years.
[00:12:52] That's amazing. Yeah I mean for so long. I mean it's really fun and one of the stories I love in the book is it has to do with a musician and it is this kind of let's see what it's Dexter Hallen kind of this side thing in.
[00:13:10] You do your research I love it. Yeah.
[00:13:11] Yeah. I mean and then I didn't know this whole thing. Can you talk about that little bit.
[00:13:17] Dexter Hallen from the 90s punk band The Offspring you know to fly for a white guy. However the song went. All of that stuff. Orange County guy so he grew up in Garden Grove which is a working class town in Orange County grew up among Mexicans love Mexican food becomes the rock superstar and then once he starts going into a passion project it's not music it's not a fly. He's a very smart guy who got his doctorate in biochemistry from USC.
[00:13:47] And that really surprised me. I mean I don't know why.
[00:13:51] You don't Expect that you expect someone's a musician. There are good to do. Musician forever. Yeah but he gets his biochemistry degree but his passion project is making a hot sauce. So he releases a hot sauce called gringo bandito. And if you know about the oh it's basically take the top at the old guy. So your classic Mexican charro big sombrero the bandoliers and all that and now it's Dexter like that which is really like if you were to see it most people would be offended by it. But now it's Dexter jokers. Even better gringo Bandidos are really good hot sauce.
[00:14:22] That's what I've heard. I kind of want to really want to try it. You said I think it's better.
[00:14:27] I think it's better than tapatio because he leaves the seeds in there so sometimes you get seeds every once in a while to give you just that extra pop.
[00:14:34] Amazing. Yeah. Well we have lots more to talk about. It's time for our first musical break. I tried to find bands that were from L.A. and I usually play three songs in the course of it and the first band I have a direct connection to and that's Chicano Batman.
[00:14:53] Guy you know. Amazing.
[00:14:56] Yeah well the drummer from that band was a student at Citrus college. And so they and you know they've been doing some really amazing things and the song I'm going to play is I think one of the things that's really sort of propelled them forward which is their version of this land is your land which was most notably on I think it's a Jack Daniels commercial during the Super Bowl last year. So for our first musical break this is cover of this is land is your land by Chicano Batman. This is K91ɬÂþ Thunder 91.1.
[00:18:26] OK well welcome back. And you're listening to the apex hour. This is KUU Thunder 91.1. And we have Gustavo Arellano here in the studio with us today. And we're talking all things food culture particularly with Latino food and tacos. But I'm going to turn the discussion now to two little bit of people I know that you have been just really on the scene and really had a great opportunity to collaborate with and interact with some of the greatest minds and personalities in food and in particular. There's a couple that I know of and maybe you have others you want to speak about. But two that we lost recently and the first is Jonathan Gold who is just a beloved member of the Southern California and national community and I know that you wrote about him and have talked about him and maybe you can share your relationship or experiences are.
[00:19:26] He was a genius he was also a very kind guy. He changed food writing before. Before Jonathan it was all about experience at the restaurant just a service just this very very specific small world. But with Jonathan with the genius of him and he wrote for The Los Angeles Times and L.A. Weekly those are really his two most famous platforms. But the genius of him is that he told the whole world. He told the story of the world just based on the restaurant and he told you how Southern California was changing like OK you have a new Chinese restaurant town was not just Chinese there's a story behind it what part of China are there from what dishes are they selling from China. And he would do this with every immigrant culture again and again and again in many ways he legitimized ethnic cuisine in America. Before that it was seen as some exotic weird thing that you call bizarre weird food Jonathan just treat it as what it is food. And he wrote about it so beautifully and elegantly and he tragically died of pancreatic cancer just this past July I remember I was told about it and I was sworn to secrecy which I was. And from his diagnosis to his death was just about two and a half weeks. Pancreatic cancer is a widowmaker like what if it's a most bizarre tragic cancer like other cancers. You know even if it's late late in the game you could fight it. But pancreatic if you if when they find it's usually. Stage 4 and at that point say your goodbyes. I didn't really it was as tragic but at least people who loved him were able as he was able to make peace with his self. As sad as it was. Like most people do not have the chance to be able to say goodbye to the people that they want to say goodbye to and vice versa. Like most unfortunately when most people pass away it's either instantaneous or after a long time which at that point you're defeated and you're no longer the person that person is the longer the person you remember. But so fast so and miss him terribly.
[00:21:25] And he was live was saying last week we showed the ugly delicious episode of taco's and he was memorably in with all of you driving around L.A. and that must have been a really special time. Can you talk about that that experience filming that episode that project.
[00:21:43] Ugly delicious was the David. David Chang limited series on Netflix and he just went around the world like he would take one dish and you try to tell a whole history about it so I obviously was on the taco's episode it was me. David Chang was a very famous chef from New York. Peter Meehan who was an editor for a former magazine called Lucky Peach that he and David ran then Jonathan and so I drove in this beautiful Jeep Grand Caravan Dodge up a beautiful Jeep Wagoner. That's wasn't mine. I wish it was.
[00:22:16] Everybody that was a question that came up. There were like is that his car.
[00:22:19] My car's better actually I have a 79 Ford Ranger super cab.
[00:22:24] Oh my God that's awesome
[00:22:26] So they had me drive around town. They had the steady cam in the front and we just had conversation. And it's funny because people say like was Jonathan sleeping during the shot. Probably. Who cares it's Jonathan. Jonathan could do whatever he wants me. The upstart so I have to like put on a dog and pony show but whatever he was great Dave was great great food. We hit up like 3 or 4 spots I believe in that episode and then I apparently wowed the producers so much that they asked me to do a separate episode or that episode by a separate segment for that episode and Mitla cafe that was a restaurant that ended up becoming the quote unquote inspiration for Taco Bell. So like if you haven't seen it just go utterly delicious ugly delicious on Netflix. You don't even have to see my episode the other episodes are great there's episodes pizza about BBQ about chicken wings really it's a really good show.
[00:23:21] Is doing a show something you'd like to.
[00:23:25] Of course you know I worked in Hollywood for little bit. I served as a consulting producer on a Fox cartoon called Bordertown that only lasted half a season they got canceled because no one saw it. but I thought it was good. I got a pilot commit not a pilot script commitment for ABC so I was able to write a script for them it was going to be a show about gentrification in Boyle Heights in Los Angeles.
[00:23:48] Oh.
[00:23:48] that didn't go anywhere. I get it they said the characters weren't strong enough hey it was my first time trying to write a script. So that was cool but I like being a reporter more when it comes to Hollywood. Especially the way Hollywood is now or forever used to sit in something called the writers room and you sit in a room eight hours a day minimum Monday through Friday. While the season's going which is about nine months is basically like school. And for someone like myself who's basically been I I've just been like a wild man my entire professional career going on like making my own schedule just for us it's all about the story. I just found it very confining to be in that room again and again and again. I still have an agent I still get offers to be on shows. But I tell them like if I'm going and I get it not to climb the Hollywood ladder you have to start at the beginning. But at this point I'm like I don't even need this. Like if I were to do a show I'm sorry to say it would have to be my show if I'm going to be made to sit in a room for eight hours thinking of jokes like it better be my show. Otherwise there's no point to I don't care how much money you throw at me. I don't care.
[00:24:54] But I could so imagine a show with you going around the U.S. These restaurants and getting the camera inside these places and how beautiful that can be.
[00:25:03] And I thank you for that. I've pitched it it hasn't gone anywhere. If it happens it happens but I'm not counting on it. And that's the other thing with Hollywood things take forever. Yeah minimum nine months for turn around as a reporter I could turn in a story today and publish it like in an hour.
[00:25:21] Right. Right. Well the other person that I wanted to ask you about was Anthony Bordain. So many of us who love travel and food. I mean he was such an icon and such an inspiration and everything. And I know that you wrote a beautiful article very shortly after he passed. And you have worked with him and if you wouldn't mind commenting on your experiences with him or thoughts about that.
[00:25:47] Amazing kind man. I only at least talked to him that one time we were supposed to do another show later on down the line. I know it didn't happen but the story I always tell about Anthony just to show you what kind of man he was so we filmed the segment on the street like a tourist trap with really good Mexican food in in Los Angeles. So we filmed there at night around 9 o'clock when everything was closed because they didn't want crowds there and it wasn't him. Just like you could not film with all the crowds around.
[00:26:19] well it Gets so busy yet that play.
[00:26:21] Oh my lord. Yeah. So he shows up and he's in pain because he had just gone undergone a six hour tattoo session on his arm like on his thigh going up to his hip. a place where it's going to be bending and hurting so. But he was great. He was a pro he said he like myself that was nice. Then we finally wrap up around say 11 thirty at night. And there's a car waiting for him already taking a hotel. He's you know he's tired. People were out and they didn't know he was shooting but once they saw him they start going up to him we're talking about homeless people we're talking about police officers people going to work people coming from work immigrants nonimmigrants hipsters and they all go up to him and they all have a favorite episode and not only does he entertain them but he actually has a conversation with them and so he ends up staying there for like 45 minutes more. The course they're like it's illegally parked it actually starts going in circles around here have to do that. And if he told everyone you know what folks I appreciate it but I'm tired. Everyone would have said OK that's fine. That shows that shows the the the. It's a testament to the man. It's a testament to who he was what he stood for. His work ethic and more importantly that he was grateful no matter how. And the guy was a genius. He was a genius and he knew it. But that said he was humble about like you know you know when people know that they're you know in Spanish say muy muy like Real like real real you know. And he knew that he didn't let it get to his head. He like listened to everyone he'd have like oh yeah that episode give them little stories. He knew what he had to do and everyone of course. And I take a picture I never take selfies like especially with celebrities and I just find it tacky. I took a selfie with him. I had to.
[00:28:06] And what a treasure for you.
[00:28:08] Oh my God yeah.
[00:28:09] I mean it's just such a lot that I think so many people can't understand. And so it's I'm happy that we still have his work his legacy work.
[00:28:20] him and Jonathan. You know those those gentlemen passing away and others like her really made me think about mortality this year. And I realize that the most you could do. You know we all want to be remembered but and some can some can't. The most important thing you want to do is leave a legacy left after you pass away. Let people say yeah that was a good person and here's sort of a testament to the way that he or she were able to do so would leave a legacy. Everyone should leave a legacy in their own way. You know.
[00:28:51] Well that's a beautiful statement to take a pause and reflect on and we'll listen to our next song and the next song I have is is another band and I'm not sure what this band is doing right now but this is a band and I have a little bit of a connection to and it's a band called Ozomatli. I believe they started as high school students at Hamilton together and so they kind of started in one of the performing arts schools known for performing arts in Los Angeles and they have sort of a great melting pot of my story. I mean.
[00:29:26] Their percussion is Japanese American. Yeah.
[00:29:29] Yeah. There's somebody from everybody and then and then their lyrics are often sometimes in Spanish sometimes in English and like you said they have a Japanese American drummer and all of this. And again I haven't heard too much recently but I know they have some really great stuff out there. So the song I like to play of theirs is called after party. So that's the song we're going to listen to and this is Ozomatli the song is after party and you're listening to K91ɬÂþ Thunder 91.1.
[00:33:34] Well we are back here at the apex hour. This is Lynn Vartan I'm joined with Gustavo Arellano. That song that you just heard was after a party by Ozomatli. It's just such a great. I just want to have like a little like slushy or something by the pool and just enjoy that music.
[00:33:51] And just lounge in a Barcalounger or floaty things.
[00:33:55] And. And Gustavo you were telling me that they tour a lot right now so I know if anybody's interested in what they're doing they have a fairly recent E.P. that they released and also they're touring all the time so O Z O M A T L I Ozomatli. OK well we're going to continue our discussion and I think one of the things I was really taken by in the book was how much the individual story propelled the big story of Mexican food forward. And I just was always struck by it was always somebody like somebody in the back stirring together their salsa or for example maybe a story that would be fun. We talked a little bit about the margarita and then there's the story of the guy who went in the 7-Eleven and sort of saw the Slurpee.
[00:34:49] Oh the margarita machine Mariano Martinez.
[00:34:52] So maybe if you could comment on either that story or kind of talking about it in your perception how the the individuals matter. You know.
[00:35:02] It all inventions start with one person and usually it's a group of people but you have to tell those stories and the thing and it all started somewhere it just didn't come out of thin air just like magically landed on your desk or on your in your kitchen. So one of the things I try to do in Taco USA or just anything or try to really track the pioneer so to speak who was the person who invented it. So with the frozen margarita machine it was a man named Mariano Martinez. He used to make frozen margaritas the old way or like the way to make way a lot of people do just you know get a blender zzzp pour em out.
[00:35:39] And all the limes.
[00:35:40] All the limes and just like it was just way too much. So one day he sees a tasty machine so like soft serve ice cream machine taste the ice soft serve ice cream machine and he thinks to himself Well let's let's try it out why not. It worked. It worked. He was able to build an empire off of it. People started like he did not copyright the technology which is you know to his dying day although don't cry for him he's a millionaire many many times over. But that machine is now at the Smithsonian. So he donated that machine to the Smithsonian.
[00:36:13] Wow.
[00:36:13] And so yeah that's how important Mexican food history is to the United States that we have that we keep it at our ultimate repository of our nation's history of our nation's past. And a lot of this is if if we don't know who invented it we can really say who popularized this like for heater's for instance it was a woman from Houston fajitas came from south Texas. Everyone knows that but she's the one who brought it to Houston. The early 1980s made it a sensation and then spread across the United States so much so that a lot of people like fajitas are just part of American food right you know. And so again and that's what I try to do in my book again and again again just find those stories because I think not just to give them their credit but also just as a writer knowing their readers readers like to readers like to read about extraordinary people they don't like to read about the abstract much. They don't they want very specific tales and if you could tell the story through the prism of the one person who the whole reason you're doing this is because of that then that much more to it than you track that person. Hopefully there's still alive you interview them you get those anecdotes you get those great quotes that's how you get readers.
[00:37:22] And in your research. I mean you you talk about going to the library and the microfilm. And so it starts with that and then you kind of zero in on the person is that sort of how the process.
[00:37:32] Scour the ends of the earth. That's always a philosophy that I have when it comes to story leave no paper unturned leave no book on read leave no person an interview until you have the story and you could of course it could be a lifetime's work or a life's work but you need to find it and also be ready to be surprised do not do not correspond to whatever narrative you have or whatever idea you have that this is what the story is. If you do you're not going to go far enough. You have to be open to things completely changing. You also have to be open to frankly doing all this months of research and that leading nowhere. You will not know until. And yet you and in some ways it's a waste of time. But in other ways no because you wouldn't have known unless you went down that way.
[00:38:16] Did that happen with Taco USA. Is there any particular branch you kind of went down in where There's nothing there.
[00:38:23] I would not probably be able to remember right now. Not to brag but I'm a pro at this kind of know what to put a lot of time and effort in and see what's going on like now you are pretty I pretty much got all of them. I mean there were some interviews I couldn't get but that's OK but I tried.
[00:38:43] Yeah and are you the type of the writer. I mean do you know when something is finished. I know there's with the creative process. We talk a lot about you know there's a lot of artists who never feel like anything is finished it just keeps it's just it just keeps going. I mean yeah you have to turn it in or put it up on the wall at some point but it's never finished but other artists feel like OK that's done. How is it for you.
[00:39:05] I have only been satisfied completely with one story that was about why Mexicans love Morrissey so much when I wrote it. At that point Morrissey was not talking to the press. I tried and it was going to happen when I wrote it. I told myself no one will ever top the story and no one ever has. Everything else I could have done it better even like I'll read some of my old stuff. Oh I should have changed this word. Damn it I wish I could have gone that way but at least with reporters more so I think than other types of well everyone has deadlines but reporters know you have to meet your deadline and you're going to get some extensions sometimes but sometimes you have to go with what you have. But that said you better the way I see it is if I'm going to publish something I better be proud of it. Otherwise why am I publishing it. You know I better be able to stand by whatever I write and I do to this day even if people don't appreciate or people don't like it I'll say I tried. I know I tried. I did it. Is it the best thing I could have done. Maybe not for this particular thing but I still stand by it absolutely.
[00:40:03] And now is that story about Morrissey widely available online.
[00:40:08] It's called Dispatches from the Morrissey Latino love it.
[00:40:11] Oh my gosh. That's great. I will definitely be reading that one for sure. Another quote that I saw from you. Kind of related to this is regarding and I can't remember exact the exact words but about sort of not making everyone happy is a good thing. And that if you're not ruffling some feathers then that's good. Do you still feel that way.
[00:40:32] Oh absolutely. I mean this. I don't care if you like me or you hate me. I really do. I mean obviously it's nice if you like me if you hate me though sometimes it's even better just that it becomes more like wow you're gonna spend all this time on me like that. I don't I can't say hate people but if I did I don't spend my time he is just such a waste of time. But I don't care. I don't care either way. What I do care about though is that you read my stories the worst insult you could give me is not read my stories though. Nothing kills you kills me more when someone produced me oh yeah there's more for Southern California than a place where I'm at. No I'm like say Utah but like in Southern California all you have is just Arellano people like who. Oh my god it hurts so much. I'm trying to be an ego as big as a writer. You hope that everyone reads you so if you don't like me don't read me ignore me that that's when it gets to you as a writer
[00:41:23] but you're definitely not afraid. I mean you want to get your concepts out there and be true to you know who you are as a writer and I think that's really admirable.
[00:41:32] I have stories to tell and if as long as I'm able to tell the stories I'm going to tell them and if people don't like them I don't care take it up to whatever boss they have and knows. I haven't what's most likely that positive to say sorry he wrote a great story for me like at the end of everything. Like the only people who I care about in terms of being satisfied with my stories are really myself and maybe my editors and I've had you know I'm not difficult.
[00:41:56] Like no you are definitely not. You have been such a great guest and so easy.
[00:42:04] Like for me it's like I get it. I'm not I'm not part of your paper I'm a freelancer. I want to get involved with. But you know there was one case where the person just did not get the story. They were also not paying attention to the edits that I'm in they were messing people up at that point I'm like you know what. I'm taking my story back. No harm no foul. I got to hold that against you I really won't. But like I ultimately have to be able to stand by the story. And you're changing it in a way where I can't do that anymore so I don't need this.
[00:42:31] Right. One other topic that I think came up in the book that I was curious about is this concept of how advertising impacts things moving forward and both positively and negatively. I know in in the topic of Mexican food culture there there are some advertising campaigns that have been very very powerful and have worked. Certainly as a propeller for the culture and propellor for the food but also have created some controversy and not good things as well. And so can you talk about some of those.
[00:43:07] The whole reason Cinco de Mayo is Cinco de Mayo now it's because of advertisement by beer companies where they realized I mean Mexican Americans celebrated Cinco de Mayo absolutely but it was never the thing it was until American beer companies started selling them specifically Coors and Bud Light made these whole campaigns about it around it and back in the 1980s and Corona hopped on the bandwagon yeah. Corona's of Mexican beer for sure not so I forget which conglomerate but yeah that's a case where then you had the Taco Bell chihuahua dog like mi taco bell. Very very popular but when all you have is a spokesperson is a dog and I liked you I was like dogs or you know they're cute dogs. It's like come on. You can do better than that. Or you know you have good commercials like chipotle for the longest time they had pretty good commercials back when they actually cared about their product instead of trying to be like a higher end version of Taco Bell you know Taco Bell and then later on Taco Bell dropped the Taco Bell chihuahua dog work. The other case to frito bandito to freedom and neither was a total stereotype. Everything bad like Bendito characters for Frito-Lay has virtually Frito-Lay dropped in the 1970s due to it. There was never a boycott. There's a lot of complaints by Latino activists. Yeah like food is food is grey you don't need. You don't need stereotypes really to sell them although if they work the people will still use it.
[00:44:23] In the book you talk about one of the images and I think there's a complexity with and that is you know the image that we see on various things that is the Mexican labor resting by the tree with the hat down on the cactus and that that has that can have very positive sort of ideas of relaxation and enjoying life but also has turned into a negative connotation as well. What are your thoughts about that. Should we not use it. Should that be used. What do you think.
[00:44:55] That's a fascinating history and in my book I just barely touched on it but I actually did a big 3000 word essay about the history of the the primary scholar on the sleeping Mexican under a cactus is a professor named Marable Alvarez from the University of Arizona and she tracked the whole history. It's actually the reclining figure goes back to Greeks to the Greeks. How could I put this. The the overall image of the motif that's what it is. And when that image first started coming around it was actually supposed to provoke sympathy among the people because the Mexican is sleeping yes but it's because he's so exhausted because he was being exploited by the House in Davos during the porphyry hour or the era before the Mexican Revolution. And so they were sleeping because they had nowhere. There were these men from the countryside were going to the city they would work there were exhausted they had nowhere else to sleep. So they would sleep next to the wall reclining. Eventually though that image starts turning into kitsch in the American Southwest. And the important thing is that the cactus that it's sleeping under it's a saguaro cactus grows only very specific to the Sonora like Tucson. Maybe going up to Phoenix a little bit of very specific cactus so it's very much an image of the Southwest but then it became code for Mexican and also all the Mexicans sleeping because he's lazy the Mexicans sleeping here because he's cute and now it's kind of turn to the like. You'd make another turn. Now it's like a term of nostalgia. So you cross the American Southwest and Mexican American households you have the stature of the sleeping Mexican under the cactus and they say yeah it's a part of my culture. It's part of who it is. You could use anything for good or for bad. So it's the important thing is always context. You know so you have these restaurants especially like in the Midwest and higher West in the south and they still use that motif and people don't find it offensive because for them it's a calling card for Mexican food. You would never see that sort of imagery in a Mexican restaurant Southern California any more people would say it's like oh that's so antiquated.
[00:46:58] Right.
[00:46:59] And you know and frankly you don't need a sleeping Mexican or the cactus to sell you Mexican food anymore either. No.
[00:47:05] Well that nostalgia thing is really interesting and we talked a little bit about that this morning but that also kind of brings me back to talking about Los Angeles and Olvera Street and there's there is always this nostalgia that that sort of creeps back in. Is that is that a good thing is that what do you think.
[00:47:24] I don't like nostalgia I think nostalgia is a juvenile emotion and makes me sound very cantankerous and cranky but I don't care and I'm saying in general like the back in the day was not better than what you think. And then when you're yearning for a past you're not paying attention to the present with. Same thing with Mexican food. Oh you know this is just how you know it used to be served back in the days of the assets like no we're now living the days of the Aztecs anymore. Give me something that's good for better or for worse. Nostalgia is different from traditions traditions are passed on from generation to generation. Traditions are living breathing things that can sometimes evolve and sometimes don't. And that's perfectly fine. But nostalgia is just yearning for a past that you're not going to get anymore and that probably never really existed.
[00:48:13] Right.
[00:48:14] Again juvenile juvenile juvenile.
[00:48:15] You see this on TV. I mean people talk about some of these shows that hearken back to the 50s and 60s and there are these romanticized versions of that. Yeah that didn't really even know.
[00:48:28] Everyone gives the biggest stars of the 1950s oh so easy back in those days. Yeah if you're white if you're Mexican you're a segregated egads if you're black you didn't have full voting rights. If you're any other sort of group that you would just be harassed because you didn't look quote unquote why I didn't like that I don't have any nostalgia. I like the music but that's about it no nostalgia.
[00:48:49] Instead we should look to the future.
[00:48:50] Exactly. You should always be looking to try to improve the life that you live right now. The past is the past you should learn the past I think you know you. That's why I'm such a huge proponent of history and historical literacy but you don't live in the past anymore. The past is not going to come back. You have to go moving forward and if you are just going to live in the past like I feel sorry for you.
[00:49:11] Yeah. On that note I have another song to play for you. Now this is one artist who is not from L.A. but I just love what she's doing and this is Ana Tijoux. She's also.
[00:49:22] She's awesome.
[00:49:23] I know. And in fact the reason I know about her is because of L.A. And that's because the my my brother in law shout out there to Arturo who turned me on to Ana Tijoux music and this is a song of hers called shock. And yeah. Check it out. T I J O U X Ana. Tijoux shock and you were listening to K91ɬÂþ Thunder 91.1.
[00:53:13] We're back. We were just talking about music and this is the apex our K91ɬÂþ Thunder 91.1 And we're here in the studio with Gustavo Arellano. And what we were talking about was music and that's a perfect kind of segue to what we're going to do now which is kind of talk about what's turning us on this week and kind of everybody's favorite segment. And yes so you used to be a music critic. So you know all these bands and everything.
[00:53:40] I used to know way way better back in the days. I'm not as much attuned to it anymore. Of course I knew who Chicano Batman was and that's about it. It's funny because I say I don't like nostalgia. Paul I listened to his old music but I thought so. That's how I always was. It was weird because of my upbringing you know and Southern California and the nineteen 80s and 90s like I listen to the hip hop for sure and I was like more of the funk sound than East Coast once. G funk went down and the East Coast rap started coming up. I just tuned out of rap and then was Atlanta you know hip hop starts popping up outcasted then going on Celo Green and all that then I started getting back into that again.
[00:54:20] Yeah it's hard.
[00:54:21] migos and triplets. I'm just obsessed obsessed with that type of rap because I find it absurd. It's like abstract art. They all they do is like spit out words and then there's a call and shout and response and it's just crazy crazy.
[00:54:36] So our theme our thing for the end is what's turning you on. So is that what's turning you on this. Is there an album or an artist or a movie or TV show that's turning on this movie. GUSTAVO ARELLANO.
[00:54:48] It's It's very shameful to say but what turned me on this week was a below deck Mediterranean reunion on Bravo.
[00:54:55] No I totally watch that.
[00:54:56] No way Hanah is like.
[00:55:00] Are you pro Hana.
[00:55:01] No. Crazy crazy.
[00:55:04] I can say on this show what I actually think. But you know what I like about that show is that even though like reality shows you could trash them but they're working on a bow and that's hard work and being like literally cabin fever. So of all the Bravo shows I really respect that one I like more below deck with Captain Lee and all that.
[00:55:26] Captain Lee is my favorite.
[00:55:27] As my wife's favorite too. But like it's it's amazing just to see and you see those struggles over six weeks and like. So yeah I think it's a really underrated show. And then of course the reunions you have all the drama and all that. And then Jwoww is like oh.
[00:55:44] My gosh you're totally. That's great. So you're a fellow Bravo guy which is awesome. So that's Bravo below deck Mediterranean is turning Gustavo on this week. There's a new show coming out. I can't remember the actor's name where he's. He's saying it's sort of like everybody who watches Bravo.
[00:56:04] Oh yeah yeah. It's like like he's going to do commentary like that funny.
[00:56:09] I think that was really fun. Well that was fantastic on behalf of everybody here at Apex and southern Utah. I just want to say thank you so much for your time and thanks for being here and spending the hour with us on the radio.
[00:56:22] Gracias for we're having me great music great conversation.
[00:56:25] Well that's it for the Apex hour. We will let you get back to your regular programming and we will see you next week.
[00:56:35] Thanks so much for listening to the 8:00p.m. hour here on K91ɬÂþ Thunder ninety one point one. Come find us again next Thursday at 3:00p.m. for more conversations with the visiting guests at Southern Utah University and new music to discover for your next playlist. And in the meantime we would love to see you at our events on campus. Find out more. Check out 91ɬÂþ.edu/APEX Until next week. This is Lynn Vartan saying goodbye from the apex hour here on Thunder ninety one point one.