Sarah Lewis is an in the Department of History of Art and Architecture and the Department of African and African American Studies.
Lewis is the guest editor of the “Vision & Justice” issue of Aperture (2016) which received the 2017 Infinity Award for Critical Writing and Research from the International Center of Photography. The widely reviewed issue was also made required reading for all incoming freshman at New York University’s Tisch School of the Arts for the 2016-2017 academic year.
Her articles on race, contemporary art, and culture have been published in many academic journals as well as The New Yorker, the New York Times, Artforum, Art in America and for the Smithsonian, The Museum of Modern Art, and Rizzoli. Her current book project, which lies at the intersection of African American Studies, Art History, and Slavic Studies, is under contract with Harvard University Press.
Lewis is also the author of the Los Angeles Times bestseller, The Rise: Creativity, the Gift of Failure, and the Search for Mastery (2014) which has been reviewed widely, translated into 7 languages, and was the Provost’s reading selection at the University of Houston and Hofstra University, making it required reading for all incoming freshman.
Lewis is a frequent keynote speaker at many universities and conferences from TED, SXSW, PopTech, ASCD and for a wide range of organizations from the Aspen Ideas Festival to the Federal Reserve Bank. Her work has been profiled in The New York Times and The Wall Street Journal.
Her scholarship has been supported by the Ford Foundation, the Milton Fund, the Beinecke Rare Book & Manuscript Library, the Hutchins Center at Harvard University, and the Gilder Lehrman Center for the Study of Slavery, Resistance & Abolition.
She received her bachelor’s degree from Harvard, an M.Phil from Oxford University, and her Ph.D. from Yale University in the History of Art. Before joining the faculty at Harvard, she held curatorial positions at The Museum of Modern Art, New York and the Tate Modern, London. She also served as a Critic at Yale University School of Art. She currently serves on the board of Creative Time and the Andy Warhol Foundation of the Visual Arts and has served on the board of The Brearley School and The CUNY Graduate Center.
She lives in New York City and Cambridge, MA.
91ɬÂþ Press Release: Author, Curator, and Harvard Professor Dr. Sarah Lewis to Give Grace A. Tanner Lecture in Human Values
Sarah Lewis Podcast Transcript
[00:00:01] Hey everyone this is Lynn Vartan and you are listening to the apex hour K91ɬÂþ Thunder 91.1. In this show you get more personal time with the guests who visit Southern Utah University from all over. Learning more about their stories and opinions beyond their presentations on stage. We will also give you some new music to listen to and hope to turn you new sounds and new genres. You can find us here every Thursday at 3:00p.m. or on the web at suu.edu/apex But for now. Welcome to this week's show here. Thundery ninety one. Point one.
[00:00:47] OK. Well welcome everyone. And if you were listening to that introduction you heard Thursdays at 3:00p.m. which it is not Thursday at 3:00p.m. It's Thursday at 4:00p.m. here on a brisk day in September here at Southern Utah University. But we could not pass an up opportunity to speak with the guests that we have on campus today. It has been such an honor to have Dr. Sarah Lewis on campus today. And then here in the studio right now I mean the words that I heard from her talk today people were saying life changing inspiring. I mean just so so so very much so. Please welcome Dr. Sarah Lewis. Thank you so much for your time.
[00:01:31] It's such a pleasure to be here. Thank you for that warm welcome. It's really a pleasure.
[00:01:35] We've just been enjoying so much. We've been some of our classes have been reading your book The Rise and we have a book club discussion set up next week. And those some of those students were in the hall today. And then of course we've been celebrating imagery and celebrating place. And so we're just going to continue the conversation a little bit today and go from there.
[00:01:56] Let's do it.
[00:01:57] I mentioned to you that I have been so touched by the story of your grandfather which I know you mentioned in your TED Talks and it's of course in your book and in your writings and that has been it's just touching on so many levels. Of course his story and the incident that you mention and talked about today which students can you can read about in the blog and hear about but also his inspiration that he has been to you. So my first question or topic is I'd love to hear more about that inspiration and how he maybe continues to inspire him it seems like his presence is still very much a part of your life.
[00:02:37] Yes yes. So I had an experience of probably a ton of our listeners have had something that happens in your life that maybe at the time you don't realize is as important as it is. For me When I was a sophomore in college I learned that my grandfather had this story that is really stayed in my memory ever since he was in high school and the 11th grade in New York City public high school and he was asking the teacher just a basic question he wanted to know why the history books didn't represent the world in the diverse representation that we know that it has. And he was just he was expelled for his impertinence of not accepting the history teacher's answer which was that African-Americans in particular had done nothing to merit inclusion and his pride was so wounded he never went back to school and he never got that high school degree. But he became an artist. And that extraordinary work he created made me wonder about whether or not we fully explored the connection between art and justice. Yeah in part because of the type of work he was creating and because of the energy that I then understood was really behind it. His name is Shadrack Emmanuel Lee and my initials S E L are meant to honor him but my name is far less dramatic and cool.
[00:04:00] But it's so elegant and beautiful.
[00:04:04] My parents did okay with my name I think. But he still inspires me to this day. Absolutely.
[00:04:09] And do you do you... I know in the last talk at the at our museum you talked a little bit about your spirituality. I mean do you still feel that you connect have a presence that you sort of feel. I mean do you imagine him. I mean how how does it manifest itself for you now that inspiration.
[00:04:30] Yeah I am deeply spiritual and I don't feel that those who pass have left us right. So I definitely feel his presence. There's really not a day that goes by when I'm especially when I'm teaching in which I don't consider the fact that it's just two generations later. From that moment my grandfather had 1926 where I'm a professor at Harvard teaching the topics that he really was condemned for asking about. And so I sense his support with me now. I sense his encouragement and I love the final line or some sentence he said about me which he was about to pass. My mother showed him one of my paintings. I wanted to be an artist when I was younger and he looked at it and he said I think she's got it.
[00:05:22] Ah wow that's amazing. That's really a beautiful beautiful insight and I think she's got it in so many ways. I mean in fact this just came up at the lunch table we were talking about musicians and we were talking about how interacting and collaborating and how when you know someone's got it. So it can occur on so many different levels.
[00:05:48] That's right.
[00:05:49] And so it's just a beautiful kind of coming together. And so I'm curious about the art aspect of it because he was a painter and you learned from him and I know you at one time wanted to be a painter and I think I heard perhaps on a radio show or talk show that you said even still you sort of do now. Is that something that you go to for Inspiration.
[00:06:13] Yeah. So you know I'm on sabbatical right now so on any given day and likely be pursuing some hidden interests but I do still want to create in different ways. I see my writing very much as the creative outlets of the Rise certainly constituted a real creative act for me and I so I love my work in that sense but I still want to create images. I don't know that it will be in the context of painting. I think it might be in the realm of photography.
[00:06:44] Well that's what I was going to ask so much of your study has been around for you. And some of your curating activities have been around photography.
[00:06:55] Is that something that you have a background in or were just drawn to because of the historical context or.
[00:07:00] Yeah it's a great question. The answer is really both. I did study photography I want to I chose no. Don't try this at home folks but I chose my graduate school based upon the fact that there was a dark room and so so so when I went to Oxford for grad school and I just chose where I lived based upon the fact that I'd be next to a darkroom. My thinking was it's really rainy in the UK all the time so the place to go. And so I learned I trained myself but then I became more interested in the history of photographs and what they did how they moved us how they shifted our sense of ourselves. So I fell into that rabbit hole.
[00:07:40] That's great and sort of along those lines. Another figure that is quite prominent in your work is Frederick Douglass. At what point where did that come into your life. How did you come to find I mean this sort of treasure trove of his artistic concept and his and his connection with photography and at what point did he come into your life.
[00:08:05] Yeah another great question. I was in graduate school my first or second year online doing some research and I just stumbled across this speech and it was digitized and it's in the Library of Congress is collections I could look at the handwritten speech from the comfort of my home and I was stunned. I couldn't believe what I was reading. It took some time to read it right. Yeah it's in his own hand that's difficult and I've stumbled upon it before the books came out that transcribe the speeches so that it had the benefit of looking at that text. My colleagues John Stoffer and Henry Louis Gates and others have done great work on Douglas as well but I mention that the archival find in part because I want to make sure people know that the Library of Congress and other places contain unspeakable treasures there are still gold mines to discover many of them are digitized from the comfort of your place in Utah you can be exploring these things.
[00:09:03] That sounds a lot like I'm a musician. And when we go to the original editions of Bach or Beethoven there's so much difference than the sort of modern translations if you will so you were reading it from his own hand now and then that message just led you down the rabbit hole so to speak. How I know that you continue to talk a lot about him. How do you think he would see with all of your research on him. How do you think he would view our connection to images today visual culture. Do you think he would be happy about it or would he say we I mean do you have any perspectives of him. I mean you know so much about how he came to find the thing.
[00:09:53] Yes well he needs to be reframed as as as an art historian the depths of but she explored the topic is that profound. He was living in an age that's analogous to our own. He'd have a lot to say it was the birth of photography when he was writing this speech. We were in a moment in which we are a new sort of facing image gluts in the way that he did. They say that every three minutes though they say Nicholas Muir's office says every three minutes we take as many images as are made. The entire nineteenth century that's huge. So he would be not surprised that we are reading the world through pictures. He would I think be encouraged by the moments of inspiration that we derive from say an image that's on the cover of Time or anywhere else that makes us either see things anew or take action. But I think might wonder why we're not doing more as a result of some of the images that we're seeing right.
[00:10:51] I didn't realize the parallels between his time and ours. I think that's really fascinating to think about that yeah it's amazing.
[00:11:00] Yeah I mean imagine a world in which there were no photographs and then all the sudden as he writes in his speech you can't go into someone's house without being having images pushed on you you're forced to contend with them. It was a seismic shift.
[00:11:12] Yeah yeah well just to follow that thread a little bit further into today's world. You know in your position as a historian and do you have any recommendations that you wish that. People would. Follow Perhaps advertisers or what do you think can help us right now to try to be better with our connection to images and our placement of images and our sort of integrity I guess with regard to images.
[00:11:51] Yes. What I would hope people with is focus on more is the way in which images create narratives that can ignite the imagination and can also really denigrate those in society. They have incredible power today and that's something that marketers advertisers shouldn't take lightly. You can think about the negative examples I don't like to dwell on the negative just to give you an example there are tons of ads by Pepsi with. Kendall Kardashian right. Or....
[00:12:25] Yes I am not really up on the air and then H and M where they had to yank an image of a young black boy and the sort of T-shirt that was positioning him as a monkey in the jungle there are all of these examples of marketers not seeing the ways in which narratives are both layered on to pictures and have been historically just how stereotypes get created and how we can use images to better and larger notion of who we need to honor in society. So it's work that I think about a lot of my classroom I'm teaching students many of whom I knew were not going to be art historians. I didn't think that's going to be an historian when I was student and I in some ways feel as if I'm that plus some other things. And so I hope though that the students are really take away that we're living in a very visually literate society without fully acknowledging that that's the case. You know if you're looking at your phone while you're listening you're reading the world through pictures probably right now you're probably not reading a whole article you're probably looking past some images about something. And so journalists I think are also embedding their stories in these pictures as much as marketers are and we need to get clear about how we're continuing past narratives that we like to eliminate and how we can inaugurate new ones.
[00:13:40] Do you think that that responsibility lies with Advertisers journalists artists or is it something that you think Everyone needs to think about acknowledge or do we need these industries to lead us.
[00:13:57] So that's a great point. I don't think that the industry leadership model is the answer. I've actually as much as I could put out an open call to Pepsi and whoever else I would be happy to have them come to class. They're not coming to my class. I mean you know I think about what are the odds so we could wait but that's not that's not the way capitalism works. The other reason I don't think the industry leadership models the answer is because we have decentralized how images are put out today. Social media has made an individual capable of being their own best marketer.
[00:14:34] Right. Right.
[00:14:35] So if you curate your Instagram page you're looking at the way in which people are reading images you're mindful of what's going to create more followers for your page you know. Same with Twitter same with everything else. Yes. So it's all of us.
[00:14:49] And do you when we at when we incorporate our own social media.
[00:14:55] Yeah.
[00:14:56] Do you have any recommendations for the individual that is the small business that this that that. How can we be more intuitive more sensitive more you know have more integrity.
[00:15:12] You know I I think that image that I showed earlier today is a good example. I'm just to answer your question what images would inspire you to be your best self.
[00:15:22] Right right.
[00:15:24] What images would let you live out a dream. What would squelch that dream. Those are the kind of filters that I use and I'm thinking about what to put out in public that image I showed earlier of Pete Souza showing what was happening in the White House on this given day when a young boy wanted to know if his hair texture really did match that of the president and he had the great fortune of having President Obama leaned down to let him touch his head. It's a stunning image. And why is it a stunning image. Because you see and can imagine his world opening up because of the kind of image in front of him right. Let history be possible.
[00:16:04] That picture is such a treasure I mean Pete Souza's work is just phenomenal. There are so many great things but that particular moment. And I think that that photo is one of his favorites. I think he has commented in part in some radio shows that it's one of his favorite moments as well.
[00:16:18] I wouldn't be surprised. It's extraordinary.
[00:16:21] well I have a couple of little musical moments today and I get to choose things that I thought might be interesting. We have some some jazz and I know you're a big fan and we were playing some Wynton Marsalis earlier but this particular song is when it's Sleepy Time Down South and it's from Standard Time. 2 in intimacy calling and I'm Marcus Roberts on piano and Jeff Tain Watts joining him on bass and so we'll have a listen to that here on the apex hour K91ɬÂþ Thunder 91.1.
[00:21:54] OK well we are back here on the apex hour. And this is Lynn Vartan and you're listening K91ɬÂþ Thunder 91.1 That was Wynton Marsalis when it's Sleepy Time Down South. The album is called Standard Time. 2 intimacy calling. Just a beautiful beautiful collection of numbers and a great great great band. I'm joined in the studio with our guest who's been on campus for the Tanner center lecture and her name is Dr. Sarah Lewis. Welcome back.
[00:22:26] Thank you.
[00:22:28] In this break. I'd love to get into the creative process into your creative process in about writing and I'd love to know a little bit also about about your process of curating and I think a lot of people are mystified by what the role of a curator is. Can you talk a little bit about how you perceive that role. Because I imagine it's probably different for people and what it's like and how you go about the process of curating a show or or something like that.
[00:23:03] Yeah you know I actually think that it's true that the curatorial process can seem like a mystery but I often find that with at least my students they think they know what it is because they're curating so much of their lives online. In any case at least on the East Coast people call themselves curator's without being a curator at the museum at all. Just who knows what they're curating what they're editing so they call themselves curators the term curator comes from the Latin curare to care for. And that's really what the job is about to care for a collection to care for.
[00:23:37] I never really put that together of course.
[00:23:39] And it's as simple as that really at the heart of it all. So the public sees one percentage of the process just to put out a show but the end we can talk about what work that requires. But the lion's share of the work is conceptual administrative you're doing a lot of work to make sure that if you're at a museum that the museum has the collection that it should. Regarding modern art contemporary art you're in artist studios you're seeing what work is ready to be presented in a museum context. Oh yeah tons of artist visits which is my favorite part.
[00:24:12] And do you have. How do you have. I imagine you're just constantly finding new artists. I mean do you have a massive file. How do you even organize that information.
[00:24:25] You know you know you're putting me to shame I should have some great organizational system for help sort through the various artists but you know part of the work is to ensure that you're seeing work that an artist is creating that's really ready for public consumption and that's actually a smaller percentage of that the work that you just encounter. I'm fortunate to work between Boston and New York and so I'm always around a lot of the artists who I want to get to know or I fly to West Coast or to Utah or other places to get to know other artists. I do have some good electronic files but no great system looking for new systems.
[00:25:03] I mean that's I'm fascinated by how people do the things they do. You mentioned a little bit about the actual putting on the show and some of the complexities of that. Could you share a little bit about that part of the process.
[00:25:15] Yeah. So an exhibition that you see in a museum is often trying to tell a story about an artist's life and oftentimes that story sort of revolves around a central question What are we failing to see. What are we failing to see about this artist body of work. What needs to be put front and center that isn't already.
[00:25:38] Is that a conversation that you have with them or are you sort of determined from your. And then. I mean is there a consultation in that aspect of it.
[00:25:49] Yeah. Consultation sometimes at your own peril not understood but sometimes it's that it's true and curators the greats the visionary curators really do have a sense of what they like to put forward what story they think should be told. But it is in conversation not just with the artist at the time of the show but typically over the course of their career if they've been in the field for a while. I worked on the Elizabeth Marie retrospective at MoMA and she passed away shortly after that show the curator. The main one was Robert Store and he had a sense of how he wanted to display her decades of work. He talked to her about a few things. It was mainly the vetoes that I remember that you know the times when she really didn't want something to go on the wall so it can't be collaborative. Definitely yeah it can.
[00:26:36] And also with that curating process do you. Feel that. A great sense of satisfaction when it's complete. Or do you feel that you that this story is almost just beginning in a way by getting the art out there at the wrong time. It's a little related to finding that magic moment as you said when the art is ready. Is it do you feel that it is existence that completes or is it just the beginning. Or I don't know if that even made sense.
[00:27:10] It does it does it just depends on what type of show it is. You know I just curated a show and television and Justice at the Harvard Art Museums and that was a show with many artists work from Glen Legon Walker historical images of the civil rights movement and that was meant to catalyze discussion. So I didn't want it to be at an end point. I wanted it to continue and a retrospective like that of Elizabeth Murray's at MoMA. That's that's something else. It's meant to really mark the moment it's meant really to honor her and her body of work so they serve different functions.
[00:27:45] I think that's amazing. I hadn't really thought of it from that. In a way you sort of are a photographer because with with a curated exhibition or show you're also taking a snapshot in time of what you're trying you're composing what you're trying to achieve. Sometimes it's a retrospective as you said sometimes it's a point that a conversation launches from. That's really beautiful that.
[00:28:09] I hadn't thought of it either. I Think that's a good way to put it.
[00:28:11] I'd love to take just a moment or two on your own writing process. I know that many of the students who are who listen to the show are perhaps aspiring writers and I'm interested in your process in particular as it relates to that privacy realm that we talked about and I know you talk about private domains. And this is from one of your writing about that time that we honor the stage at which these private domains are as important as networking and putting your work out there and private domains permit the bravery required for decision making in art creativity. How does that play out for you in your process.
[00:28:58] This is very important. So for all those aspiring writers the most difficult part and the most rewarding part of the process for me is knowing. When your work is ready to be brought to light and discerning that getting clear about that and trusting your decision about that. The creative process is very much organic it's and in the same way which you know life takes form first as an embryo is something that needs to be protected. So too does creative work. I don't think it's a premature critique can really damage the creative process. I had the experience of showing one of my chapters just far too early to my editor and it needed to be critiqued it was raw. It was really a draft but I am also a tough critic on myself so I really do know when it's written I now know that I know that that's my gift I guess. But the critique that I received from him set me back months. I didn't touch that draft for a long time and it it it showed me the importance of this kind of a paradox about the creative process. Albert Einstein had this term and you can consider I think very much that the arts is connected to the sciences and that both are experimenting with new ideas or being creative in different ways. And he had this term for his his lab was his office. He called it a worldly cloister yes now and that really gets that you have to be able to maintain your own kind of solitude. And I often feel as if you're really cocreator when you're creating you're kind of letting yourself be a vessel for something coming through you so however you define that for yourself. But when when it's then right that's when it's time to open the door. Not before. So that's when it's time to let it become worldly. So when I say this is very important it's because I think today a lot of students but really anyone wants to show their work.
[00:30:55] They want to show everything.
[00:30:57] You want to get out there but just only when it's the right time you know.
[00:31:02] So that's a really fascinating part of the process and it relates a little bit to some of the other topics in the rise about hard work and refinement and success and mastery and in your early stages and of course share as much or as little as you want of the creative process. Are you more improvisatory. I'm thinking you know the jazz musicians who are making quick decisions all the time on the fly and and don't have that same refinement process in live music. Does your early process tend to be a little more improvs a story or do you take a more sort of methodic approach from the get go.
[00:31:46] I hadn't Thought about that. I am improvisatory at the start even constructing the lecture for today. There is a level of intuition that I use that I think intuition is our highest form of intelligence in many ways. When you're centered when you're grounded you know. So I listen to that small voice that we have to stay in touch with especially in the early stages. And then I write so many drafts of every chapter of every almost paragraph. That's when I refine once I've let myself be be free to explore the new idea.
[00:32:23] I love that and I love that you mention intuition. I think that's a whole nother. I would love to delve into that more for its place in not just the creative process but also in hard work you know. Is that something that you feel that you cultivated that intuition or do you feel that you grew into that or how did that kind of come to be seller. Do you have any thoughts on that.
[00:32:52] You know I do I think the answer is both. I was. We all have are born with instinct. You know I'm always marveling when I look. Thanks to Instagram and whatnot at these images like no baby animal anything they're able to know who they are and the moment they're here it's the same with us to a certain degree. But but we have a different kind of struggle. I think ours is to figure out what type of human we are. You know are we are we meant to be an incredible musician or as our skill to do X Y or Z and how do you listen to that voice that gives you a chance to a little bit of a nudge to go in one direction or the other. You can only do that when you get. Again it's the paradox very still very quiet. To say to shut your friends out that's all we're talking about is just a matter of getting still within yourself.
[00:33:46] Which is such a challenge in today's world for so many people. When you when you talk with your students is this it is that finding stillness is that something that comes up and and is is there any advice that you may have ever for college students young people to cultivate.
[00:34:08] Yes. Well my advice for my students and for myself is to cultivate a practice of mindfulness and and often times that the easiest way to do it is through meditation. Ironically enough I didn't meditate today I meditate almost every day I just didn't have enough time this morning. But the. Practice 15 minutes is really all it takes. It is a constant pursuit. I also talk about that in the rise. Yes so cultivating your connection is an ongoing process and meditation is such an unusual kind of practice because you never feel as if you're doing it right. All right but that's that's it. It's the constant attempt you know that gets you to get ever more connected to that inner voice.
[00:34:57] I completely 100 percent agree and I'm a big fan of yoga which has some similar things you know this idea that that it's not about doing this right or right or stretching as far or this kind of thing it's about the process and what comes up in yourself and it of course is meditation involved in that. So I'm thrilled that that's something you also favor and champion.
[00:35:20] Absolutely.
[00:35:22] Well we have another song to play and you may have said that you had a story about that about this artist I. The reason I chose this this particular song is the artist Joni Mitchell and I know that you have had a chance to interact with her and there's some photos of you. You two together in your blog. What was that like. Is there a story there.
[00:35:45] Yeah. So I met Joni Mitchell out in L.A. a few years ago at the Hammer Museum and I was there to honor this great painter Mark Bradford. She was being honored and I think Cameron Crowe was delivering her remarks and she and I were seated next to each other at a dinner at that dinner and someone wanted to take our photograph. So I asked them to take one on my phone too are talking we take the photograph and she looks at it. She said I want to make sure that we we like it. She has to see an iPhone. And she said oh no we don't we don't look great at all oh take it again. So that's the one that's on my Instagram.
[00:36:21] Curating images.
[00:36:24] Well this song is called and I chose this title because this song is called this place. And we've been talking a lot about place and its relevance to culture and society and where we are and so we'll have you have a listen to this place off the album Shine by Joni Mitchell and you are listening to the apex our K91ɬÂþ Thunder 91.1.
[00:40:34] Well that was one of our great masters that you were listening to Joni Mitchell We were just talking about that great energy that you get from her music and her lyrics and her sound and her vibe. I mean just such great presence. That song was this place off the album Shine by Joni Mitchell. You're back with the APEX hour for our last few minutes and I am in the studio with Dr. Sarah Lewis who I just could talk to for hours and hours and hours. I just really appreciate your thought and your mind and just your your care for your topics and so thank you so much for everything that you've shared with the students today.
[00:41:18] That's for sure, it's a pleasure talking to you.
[00:41:19] My last couple of questions are sort of are things that we tend to want to know from guests and the first is which is so important for our students but really for anybody but is there anything that you really wish you had known in college. You know I wish somebody had told me that I would. And of course that turns into great advice for our students now.
[00:41:42] So many things. Well I think for today's students. I might be focused more on what people thought of me than I was back then I think there are so many ways for putting out images of ourselves and things that make that the case I would want to make sure my younger self knew that as a friend of mine once said to me what or maybe it's what Michelle Obama wants that's all about. So now that that's what people think of me is none of my business.
[00:42:15] Oh wow.
[00:42:16] I think that's very important.
[00:42:18] That is powerful.
[00:42:19] But just let that take root in yourself that's what I would hope for the college students on this campus.
[00:42:24] Oh my gosh I'm going to keep that as a touchstone for myself to try to to thank you for that. And then the last thing that we like to ask is sort of our fun little closing thing and that's what's turning you on this week and of course it could be anything it could be some people have had it be a TV show or is it be a music album or a book. So Dr. Sarah this is turning you on right now.
[00:42:53] Gosh you say Dr. Sarah Lewis now I need to give you an erudite answer. So I don't want to know the last.
[00:42:57] That last week was all about a Bravo TV show so I'm going to go there.
[00:43:01] It will go very lower brow all that stuff. Well you know I do a lot of work. That brings me. That makes me focus on great books I think just Mercy by Brian Stevenson of students having read that. That's what's turned me on lately. I hope people read that too. But then for breaks I love watching things like insecure on HBO. I think that's a good show. I was really late to the party there. I did catch up. So I think that's great. But things that. Remind us that we can all create that all of our narratives are legitimate and should be honored on these platforms that we are that we have whether it's HBO Netflix or so on. That's what's inspiring me so I watch those shows with that reminder that our world is enlarging every day.
[00:43:48] That's beautiful. Well thank you so much and again thank you so much for being on the show and thank you for your time here today. And thank you for everything that you've done for our students. And with that we will just kind of sign off here. And again we'll be back on the air at our normal time at 3:00p.m. but you have been listening to this the next hour and we've had Dr. Sarah Lewis so Thank you so much.
[00:44:12] Thank you.
[00:44:13] Thank you everyone and we'll see you next week. Thanks so much for listening to the apex hour here on K91ɬÂþ Thunder ninety one point one. come find us again next Thursday at 3:00p.m. for more conversations with the visiting guests at Southern Utah University and new music to discover for your next play. And in the meantime we would love to see you at our Bense on campus to find out more. Check out suu.edu/apex Until next week. This is Lynn Vartan saying goodbye from the apex hour here on Thunder ninety one point one.