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[00:00:01] Hey, everyone, this is Lynn Vartan and you are listening to the A.P.E.X Hour on K91ɬÂþ Thunder 91.1 in this show, you get more personal time with the guests who visit Southern Utah University from all over. Learning more about their stories and opinions beyond their presentation on stage. We will also give you some new music to listen to and hope to turn you on to some new sound and new genres. You can find us here every Thursday at 3:00 p.m. or on the web at suu.edu/apex. But for now, welcome to this week's show. Here on Thunder 91.1.

[00:00:46] All right. Well, welcome into the show, everyone, this is Lynn Vartan, it's Thursday and it's November here at K91ɬÂþ Thunder 91.1. We have had such a great event today and I'm so excited to to share with you who we've had on campus. And so without further ado, I'd just like to say hello and welcome to Chuck Aaron, welcome in.

[00:01:08] Thank you very much. I appreciate it.

[00:01:10] It's been such a pleasure to have you here on campus. And I'm just going to say a couple of words about who you are. But and then I'd love for you to share with our audience some of the details about what you've done. And then we'll get into some of the details of how you got from there to here and everything so great. So Chuck is an aerobatic helicopter pilot and he is world famous. And one of the things that's been such a pleasure to watch today is after the event. I think we had more students and community members and everybody lined up to take photos. You are absolutely a rock star in the aviation world and you have done all kinds of things that are first. And I know that we'll get into some of those. But can you share with us some of the highlights from your career for everything from the movies to working with Red Bull? Can you just give us a few of the sort of highlight reel?

[00:02:04] Oh, my gosh. There's a lot of them because they've progressed as life goes on. You know, everything is new again. And then you move on to something else and something else happens. But so I get tell you, lots of them. I think one of my highlights is my friendship with my father, who led me into aviation. And then when I got my pilot's license and everything kind of took off from there back in 1972. And I've been flying full time since then. There's many, many stories of way. Cool, neat things I've seen from the helicopter. That's right. Well, probably one of the main reasons why I'm partial to a helicopter is to an airplane. I like airplanes, but the helicopter is just more fun for me. And to get paid for, it is even better. Oh, that's so cool.

[00:03:02] But I mean, if you could imagine having your worst in mind to death right now. Yeah. And even though you're very pretty to look at it, when I'm flying my helicopter at my end, sitting behind my desk, I get to see from three to five hundred feet above the ground. I get to see the whole world. Yeah. And you see canyons and you see geese and you see all kinds of animals. Every one of them. At some point you'll see them all and all kind of just cool things and have beautiful natural history.

[00:03:32] That's beautiful. Have you flown over all the continents by now?

[00:03:38] I've flown every state in the United States, Hawaii, and I've flown in the Mideast a little bit.

[00:03:46] Great. That's so cool. You talked a lot today about your relationship with your father and his impact and influence. And I was just curious. What traits in him do you think that were of of particular inspiration to you? Were there specific character traits? Where are specific things about him that you've carried into your life?

[00:04:09] Oh, yeah. Yeah. I used to have my dad was commanders of different bases everywhere we went all around the world and. What always stuck with me is that his guys that worked for him would tell me on the side wherer dad couldn't hear it, how much they liked my father. Oh, wow. That my dad was a very amicable person that liked helping. He always had a smile on his face. He always liked resolving problems and helping people. He was in a rescue for the last 15 years of his life and commander of our rescue squad and all around the world. And the Air Force actually hired him as a very unique commander and such that they would send him to a bow. Every year we get transferred somewhere else. And so we went with them. So every base we went to every year, we went there for the purpose of fixing the air rescue squadron because it was not producing well. Oh, and it was like the pilots weren't qualified to do stuff in and the morale was down. The spirit of core wasn't there. And so when my dad got there, his job was to get all the pilots up to speed and and happy again. And my mother played a role in that. She was always the president of the woman's officers club. It was wives club. And so she would set up parties for all the pilots and all the other guys and have have meetings together, just the girls, you know, and get there's esprit de corps and happiness going again. And so everyone liked my dad because he was there truly to help as a leader.

[00:06:09] Yeah, that's it. You have to do a team leader. That's beautiful. I'm really happy to know that part of the story. And so your early years you're inspired by these wonderful parents in and around aircraft all the time. Were there any early indications? Any memories or things like that that really sparked you into your career?

[00:06:33] Yeah, let's face it. So I gotta tell you the story that I don't tell too often. I should tell more of them. Somewhere around 12 ish years old, I had this reoccurring dream and I bet I had the dream over a hundred times, having done well over a hundred. The dream would start with my mother would be taking me to take me, to put me to bed at night, and she'd take me in the bedroom and I have my jammers on. I'd get into the covers and she pull the covers up over me. She'd walk out the door and close the door, say goodnight. And then soon as the door shut. I jumped out of bed. Really? Yeah. And I had a magic carpet on the floor right at the end of the bed. Wow. And I'd get on my magic carpet. I'd fly out the window. No. Yeah.

[00:07:28] Well, that's a great indicator.

[00:07:31] Yeah. So I did that. I'd gotten out. And what I do is I went out saving the world like Superman stuff here. Yeah. And I can come back and land at that for the bed in the morning. Get off the carpet and jump into bed. Pull the covers up just in time for my mother. Come in. Get me out of bed for school. Wow. That was over and over and over again. And in those dreams of course I would change the different things I was doing. I was out flying around, but so I was always flying this magic carpet. So look at me today.

[00:08:10] You are spinning around on your own magic device for sure. I love it. That's a great story. Oh, thank you for sharing.

[00:08:25] I'm a big pusher for dreams, you know. Do your dreams, whatever it is you're dreaming about. Try and do it.

[00:08:31] Yeah, I want to talk about that and get into that a little later, because that's the inspirational side of things and the message that you carry on to others. And I'm really anxious to talk to you about that. But before we get to that, so we go from the magic carpet to crop dusting, I think is the next thing that you do it. And those are probably that were those the first aircraft that you were in?

[00:08:57] No. My dad was teach me how to fly airplanes and which I was loving and. He get me a ride and in a bell, 47 from a friend of mine or a person I knew later, his name is Ernie.

[00:09:16] That's awesome.

[00:09:19] And Ernie gave him a first ride in a helicopter and that changed my whole direction life. I want to be a helicopter pilot.

[00:09:31] And what is it about the helicopter? I've watched some of your videos and it just seems amazing to me. I've never even been in a helicopter, let alone flown one. But it seems so involved and so active, like all four limbs, hands, legs, the whole thing. Is that what makes it particularly appealing to you?

[00:09:48] Yeah. Yes. It's very fluid to me. I don't know of any of my dreams, but I do fly it. When I do air shows, I fly and I'm thinking and remembering my dreams that I had as flying a magic carpet. So when I'm doing my loop, I'm thinking I'm on my magic carpet. Oh, and the carpet is doing the flying. I'm standing on it. And I've learned how to stay on it when it goes upside down and it rolls and lopes and all that stuff. So. So I honestly am thinking about my magic carpet as I do air shows. And so it it works for me and it reminds me of the past. And what I'm doing today. And it makes it fun for me to do their shows. But back to the crop dusting. That was my first job. Yeah. And that was a salute to South Carolina Spring Cotton.

[00:10:41] And you did a lot of other jobs in between there. And I think that's one of the things that I really think it's great to impart to our students or to our audiences listening that that you just you just started and just never stop. You just kept going and you did a lot of things on until this big you acrobatic thing came to you. Is that true?

[00:11:02] That's true. You know, I didn't know I was coming into this. You know, it's just part of life. You know, life to me was work hard and go after you have a dream, go after your dreams and and and and get you'll get there. And life is full of ups and downs and trials and errors and everybody's got that. You're not the only one. You know, we all have those problems. And. And so you just have to hang in there and and get through your issues and your problems and and wait for the sweet sides. And so, yeah, I've had my first job was just spraying cotton and I was working six days a week getting 200 dollars per week. And I flew from sunup to sundown for six days. And on Sundays, he let me have Sundays off. And because he was a Christian one, you have the day off. And then on Monday morning back in, see it again and fly all till dark. Yeah. And I flew 650 hours in about five, five and a half months.

[00:12:06] Wow. It was a huge amount fly.

[00:12:07] Yeah. But it was a lot of fun flying. I've never done it since I made it through that. We have the foliation period. And then my mom right as I was doing that, the last two weeks of the spring season, my mom gave me a call and told me he said, hey, this guy in Orlando had just bought an extreme helicopter and was looking for an instructor. And I had my instructor rating already. So I've raced back down to Orlando and from South Carolina until the guys are out, let me have that job. And he says, why am I said, you don't have to hire me, just pay me a flat fee of twenty five dollars an hour for every job that I get. And then I'll go out and find the work and you just give me the 25 bucks an hour. So I was working on commission office. Yeah. And I just went and hustled. Yeah.

[00:13:03] And you hustled. And then aerobatics came into your life a bit from a challenge, as I understand. Yeah.

[00:13:09] That was, you know, along that 30 years later. Yeah. But in the meantime I did all kinds of stuff. I went and I was worked at NASA for a while. And I worked on this space shuttle air rescue program. So I was helping them organize the the recovery of astronauts in case of had a problem. And I did that for a year and moved on from that and started a maintenance and overhaul facility where I started buying helicopters and rebuilding them. And I got my MP license and started by and rebuilt helicopters. And and prior to that, I was doing not just the crop dusting then. Then I started, like I told you, Armstrong, I was doing aerial photography and I was doing flight instruction there with him. And then I got some government contracts. And I was I was filming this space shuttle landing their runway at Kennedy Space Center. And I had to do that on a monthly report for Congress. And so I flew out there all the time doing that. I got another job flying for the Navy out, I was in the area and then I got a job. Then I met this other guy. I got more helicopter, one of the seven helicopters as work and every day. But I was having fun, was doing all kinds of stuff. I get my external load certificate and I start doing sling work and and and worked for the Army Corps of Engineers. And I worked for all despite all the government agencies. And then. This started buying a reselling helicopters and doing some flight test work. I did some expensive test work for the four for the Army on the Apache helicopter. I did the first flights for the first. There's a device on the nose of the helicopter called a PNB PBS as the guidance system for the gunner in the front seat so he can look out ahead and pinpoint an object like a tank or something and put a laser beam on it and they can fire a missile at it. And so I did all the flight tests for that thing for them and also done a bunch of stuff with a tripped over this other device from Max Viz that it says super camera with a different wavelength for infrared that looks can see through smoke and it can see through haze and can see through the sand. And while we're doing those projects, doing the flight testing for them to the mountains out in California, there are in helicopters in Afghanistan from helicopters come in for a landing and then all the dust would blow up and the guys would lose reference to the ground in a crash. And it was happening a lot. You didn't hear too much about it. Well, I found a system that worked. You could see through it. It's amazing. Yeah. So we did. I did all that flight test on that, too. And all worked out real well. Is the company's name was Max Fears. And they later sold out to Flipper, FLIR Flare Systems International and Oregon. And they own the company now. But that will make the long story a little shorter. I had already bought and rebuilt some COBRA helicopters that I had owned personally that I'd rebuilt and in my rebuilding part of my life. And I got a call from the director for the Rock, the movie The Rock with Sean Connery and Nicolas Cage. Yeah. And they wanted my cobra and helicopter. And I actually had two at the time, so. They paid me. I was at that time I lived in Chicago. And a really super nice guy, Rob Van Carmen, who is my financial backer there, and tell him about the movie deal we got. And so we flew both helicopters out the covers out in L.A. and then up eventually up to San Francisco. And we did that movie and that's what started my movie stuff. And then later on a guy named Dietrich Manischewitz, he is the owner of Red Bull. Right. He found out that I had a cobra in civilian hands. And he is a big advocate of aviation, loves aviation. He's an aviator himself. He's a he's a pilot, a fixed wing pilot, and he's a helicopter pilot. And so he likes doing sports. And he's big in sports and is big in aviation and loves them all. And. He found out I had this cobra and he called me up. He actually asked chief pilot, call me up. And asked me if I had the cobra and if I'd be willing to sell it. So I said, well, maybe. And he said, like him or look at it. So they both came over and they took a look at it and they just hit the Cobra's like brand new one. I rebuilt it. I did a really pristine job with it. And they they they bought it on the spot. Wow. So.

[00:18:36] Again, to make this long story, I got to tell you, four hours shorter after the transaction happened, but the helicopter, he asked me if I could do aerobatics and helicopters and my first response was no way. You can't do that. Yeah. And I had Thirteen, fourteen thousand hours by that time. And there was no way you can do aerobatics. So we talked about this stuff and that subject fell away and he took off and went back to Europe. And meanwhile, it's in my head and it's kind of grinding right there. My God. I kept thinking, oh, my gosh, maybe. Yeah. And how could I do it. And so I came up with the idea of maybe using the B A 1 0 5 helicopter. It's a German made helicopter that's built like a little Sherman tank.

[00:19:24] And why that one?

[00:19:25] Why that vehicle? Good question. So that the reason why I picked it from all the others that are available was it was small. It was twin turbine. And it had what, most importantly, a rigid rotor head. Okay. And that's a road ahead. That's a single one piece made out a solid titanium. It has no lead in like hands and no flapping hands. Only thing the blade can do is twist or feather, and it does everything it needs to do, like a normal helicopter would do being fully rigid. There's a short side to being fully ready. You can't do all you can't go real fast forward with a cruise on. It's about an and 20 knots. It's decent for a helicopter, but it's not exceptional. And but for acrobatics and maneuverability, it's the best. And it's connected to an airframe. This got too many rivets in it, which is like made it really strong. I mean, to me, I'm saying that Kiddingly, it's a very tough airframe, OK? And this rigid heads on a bolted to the top. The transmission transmissions bolted to the engine. I mean, to the transmission is bolted to the deck of the aircraft and it's all rigidly mounted. So I thought that would be the best one to start with. Yeah, that strength is that strength, I wondered. Not yet. Light and light. Yeah. Okay.

[00:20:51] So with no guarantees. All I give Dittrich call on the phone and said, maybe, Sam, I guarantee you nothing. I can't guarantee you that stuff. What the FAA is going to approve or not approve?

[00:21:04] I said maybe we could do it. We did this. And he didn't hesitate. I said do it. And he just. We spent a lot. So I did. So I bought a couple of bill, one to five and run into my shop, which was in Camarillo, California, and took them all apart. And and it took me 15 months of working on them till I finally got the FAA to certify them, to certify the aircraft fully aerobatic and and approved by the FAA. But I had a lot of help. So dominate the way I just chuck air and it was a lot of help.

[00:21:38] And that process of getting it approved, was it. Was it a back and forth, like you'd say? Here it is. And they'd be like, no. And then you'd have to make more modifications. And until they said yes. Is that how the process went? You'd think it would be that way.

[00:21:51] And I think they'd probably close to that even today. But no. What?

[00:21:57] What you do is you take your idea and your project and you build it and you invite the FAA come over and look what you're doing. And they kind of take notes as you're done. And they might come up with some suggestions. But generally, the FAA doesn't give you any suggestions. They look to the Bahrainis, the brainiacs, for the for the questions. Right. They just want the results. That's their job. We want results.

[00:22:22] So I was I'm not all that smart, but I'm smart enough to know that fields that I don't know about. I hire the right people to do that. Yeah. And I and I reach out to others for help all the time. And so that's what got me through. So when I was to answer your question.

[00:22:40] The the feds didn't approve it until I was till I told him, OK, it's ready. I'm done now. I've done all the mods. I'm going to do it. I think it's ready. And they would ask me a bunch of questions. The day they came out to certify it. We went through the whole thing. They agreed with it and they signed the paper off. Said, you're good. So I got that was the first ever certified aerobatic helicopter in the world.

[00:23:04] All right. That's amazing. And when you were saying yes to Dietrich, was it. Was it the challenge of it? Was it the desire to do acrobat? What about it made you keep going and going for it? Was it just that you had to solve the problem or was it the thrill seeking aspect of it? What part of it motivated you?

[00:23:28] Awesome question. You know this story about how to eat an elephant?

[00:23:34] No, I don't.

[00:23:37] Eat an elephant one bite at a time. It's a good analogy of handling life. You know, you don't look at, though, get a general idea where you want to go and just start chipping away at it one little piece at a time. Right. And like when I was building my cobras and when I was building the bill, one of the aerobatic helicopter, I didn't want to pay a lot of attention to where I was going to. I knew I was gonna go, but I would work on the the tail rotor. I'd work on the tail boom or I'd work on the the the main drive shaft or I'd work on the road ahead and work on this or work. And I just kept busy with my mind, busy working on those single objects until I was done. And I would set it aside, moved to the next one. And so that's out. That's all I'd done. Done. All my life is you just take the project on one piece and this particular case in the red helicopter. I wasn't even thinking enough to where I got so involved with it and I so intrigued with what I was doing. I knew going to be a record. And first that excited me. But I didn't think about when I got it all done and they signed it off, which I was certain they'd ever do that. Right. They. And when they did, I felt like I was stand on the end of a diving board. There's a bunch of sharks below me because I got a call out that I got to fly in. Right. Built the diving board on it. And I went, oh, my gosh, you got to teach myself. I do. They are back to scared the living daylights. It really did. I really didn't. I knew is there, but I just didn't get the harmonics of it in my brain of how how unnecessary this was gonna be that I've spent Red Bull millions of dollars. And I've. And I did it. But now I've got to go out and do it myself. And that was that was daunting.

[00:25:31] It seems like the process was fascinating. You. And it just kept presenting these new challenges to the new intrigues.

[00:25:39] And then the process was done. I presented it all. This whole other animal pops up like, oh, jeez, that we thought of that. I got it out in a loop and roll it now. Great.

[00:25:50] Well, and then you talk about learning about it and you say that you you call it the chicken point. You kept going almost, almost, almost. And then finally one day you did it.

[00:26:01] So my first challenge when I got through that emotional thing that I got to go ahead and loop and roll this thing was Red Bull paid for me to go to this aerobatic school and a setup when I was a Tapia in Santa Paula, California, and thinking that would help. So I went out that I went through this air about, of course, and it was a piece cake did all that. But when I got to the helicopter, it is two different animals, right? It has no bearing whatsoever. Turns out the the Arabic parts of an airplane aren't anything close to how you do aerobatics and helicopter. I see what I could see it as I was doing this because you were flying a disk. Yeah, that's above you. It's over the helicopter and you're just hanging underneath it. And this little pod along for the ride. And you you're doing the Arab barracks. The disc is doing their robotics.

[00:26:56] You talked earlier today about that. You are really controlling the disk. Yes. That's the main sort of focus.

[00:27:03] It is as the main focus. That's my magic carpets up there. And I'm just kind of hanging below that. In this case. So if we were chicken point getting a chicken out of the loop. So so back to the loop. So. So I went out and found a place to practice. And I went up to 2000 feet, AGL above the ground. And I was go to the cruise speed and I'd pull up and initiate going for a loop and I'd get it's high enough to where I'd actually check. In the beginning, I chickened out and I roll out right flyaway front. So that became my chicken point, right. And I did that over a period of about two months, which I did 50 or 60 or 70 times. And or I'd pull up to my chicken point. I'd try and get one more degree out of it each time, you know, just get a little bit more, a little bit more and a little bit more until I know as long as I get me to move the stick and roll it out. You would then? I would. I was I was good with that. I never wanted to go past my limits. I knew what my limits were. And I didn't want to exceed my limits as I don't want any aircraft pilot to exceed their personal limits. If you ever get that feeling in your gut that you've reached your limits, you need to stop.

[00:28:25] That's one of the things you articulate to the students today when they were asking about risk management. That comfort zone and that understanding is so, so important.

[00:28:37] It is. And, you know, that's where you need the instructor and you need help to get through those those limits. And you will and you'll just just pay attention and learn and ask questions. And stupid question, like I said, is the one you didn't ask. And you have to ask every question. Tell us. You totally understand in your head. Right. And don't skip out on don't don't leave it on the table. Yes. So back to my lupin, the fine I did on the one time I got up and I got to my chicken point, I said, I'm going for today. It was just the right timing. I felt perfect. My gut said everything. Right, go. Yeah, goes. So I pull the stick back. I did the loop and I'm so excited. It went so perfect. I did 10 more in a row. So for me, that was my Chuck Yeager moment where he broke through the speed of sound. That was Chuck Aaron's the speed of sound. I thought that I went and got it in aerobatics.

[00:29:32] Well, and the rest is history. Well, it's time to take a little musical break. And this is a sort of a theme one, because when we come back, I'd love to talk about one of the more recent movies that you did, which is the specter of the double most recent double 0 7 movie, which I also have a special connection to. And the song that I'm going to play is Los Muertos Vivos Estan and playing that song from that movie because it features the Tambuco percussion group who are dear, dear friends of mine. And some love bringing bridging these worlds because the famous, famous, amazing opening scene with the helicopter over Zocalo Square is flown by Chuck Aaron. So when we come back, we'll talk more about that. But in the meantime, here is one of the songs from that movie. You're listening to K91ɬÂþ Thunder 91.1. All right. Well, welcome back. So that song was Los Muertos Vivos Estan. And that's from Specter, the double 0 7 most recent double 0 7 movie, which I think is number 24. I am joined in the studio with Chuck Aaron, who is the helicopter pilot who was all over the opening sequence of that movie. So welcome back, Chuck. Thank you so much. Great to be here. That opening sequence is so magnetic and amazing on so many levels. I would love to know a little bit more about what that experience was like. And I know you do. You must have done this choreography involved. How did how did the process of designing the scene go? Did they give. How did they give that information to do a 360 here? Do a backflip here? How does that happen?

[00:33:44] Yeah, they talk to me and and I talked to the director and they kind of give me generalities of what they want. And actually they've moved up to where they've got these these little UCB called storyboards where they're drawing all these little pictures. Right. Well, they've got that so advanced now. It's actually like little three dimensional thing. Oh, wow. And so you can they'll do that at night and come up with this idea. Can you do this? And I'll say yes or no to it or modify it. And we'll do this and this and that. So, yeah, it's a collaborative team effort.

[00:34:22] And did it get designed beforehand?

[00:34:26] No during. As I said, they they came up with the basic version of it. I see. And then we kind of Massaged it as we as we went through it to make it work,.

[00:34:37] From what I saw a little bit on one of the videos, you practice it sort of close to the ground at first. Is that the first rehearsal part?

[00:34:46] Yeah. The whole thing is near the ground. There's very little of it where I'm at normal height. So a lot of it. I'm pretty close. Those in the ground are right at it and I land on the Zocalo Square. Right. Right. In the center of Mexico City. And there really is 2000 people underneath me when I  land there. That's amazing.

[00:35:12] We had we had stunt guys that were in the crowd and and we practiced this probably 30, 40 times. And we come in landing on that spot in this crowd. We have to move out of the way at the last second because I was gone, it's all choreographed. They all know what's going to happen. They know the timing and all that. But nevertheless, I'm still over two thousand people why I'm doing this stuff. And then right last second, they get out of the way and land on the ground. Right. Right there.

[00:35:44] Is that more nerve wracking or the kids? I mean, most of the things you do are in the air with you and perhaps a passenger with that more nerve wracking. I mean, I would. With all those people directly under you.

[00:35:57] Yeah. Sure. It was in Mexico City. Most people don't realize this that places at seven thousand five hundred feet altitude. Yeah. And the temperature outside when we shot this was 90 degrees Fahrenheit. So your D.A. or density altitude is way up there, though. And the way the helicopter works as is, is it's it's it's it's harder to fly. Right. So you can't turn this fast and you can't land as quickly and you can't lift up as much and you can do it all. But in my case, I was literally on the edge of everything. I was on the edge of the turning radius. I'd turn it as hard as I could to hit the stops of the flight controls. I set out to turn it the other way and to the stops to make this other turn. And I came in when I made the landings. I wouldn't bring it to hover and land. I have come right in and play right on the ground. And you know, you can't hit the ground hard. Yeah. So it was. And we had to do it over and over and over. And all movies are that way. They're all repetitively doing the same thing. It's choreographed over and over and over again. You practice a lot. Sometimes the practices are different location and get the general idea. But then you come back on set and you do the set thing and you practice at any shoot in a bunch time. They they'll put a camera on my case said about that 20 cameras gone from 20 different locations right on top of buildings all the way around us in a circle. Guys on the ground shooting it.

[00:37:27] And how long was that shoot?

[00:37:29] Several weeks for the couple of minutes. I'm on the screen. It was. I was I was there five weeks flying every day.

[00:37:42] And I know that altitude is serious. The only concert I've ever done where I've been seriously out of breath was in Mexico City. And you don't realize that, you know. And so is that kind of altitude? What are the most challenging conditions for the kind of flying that you do? Is it altitude? Is it when? What? What are the the least desirable conditions?

[00:38:05] The worst thing is heat. Oh, yeah. The engines don't like heat and it ruins them. So the cooler you keep your engines the better. It affects the inlet temperatures of the turbine section and the engine oil system has to be cooled and is recirculated. And so when is it getting recirculated with hot air? You know, scabby, really efficient to work. Those are challenging for the mechanical parts of the fly. And parts of it is the altitude and temperatures is the flight controls. When you make a response, it doesn't react very quickly and it just looks a lot slower. So reactions are slower. So you have to anticipate that.

[00:38:50] Yeah. And I was also curious, as you know, you're dealing with zero gravity situations and all these kinds of things, too. What kind of effect or what sort of effects have you found? I knew personally over the years as it has it affected you the amount of time that you're doing it, how often you're doing it?

[00:39:12] Yeah, I try to calculate how much time I've been literally upside down on negative zero GS and I've I think I'm able to take that as take that time and take it off my life so I'm not that old.

[00:39:24] All right. That's your secret to have it. I was wondering that. Psychological. Yeah. Yeah. No, no.

[00:39:35] I. I still like it. I still enjoy it. I don't get tired of it. It's not affecting me at all. I don't pull a lot of G's like the fighter pilots. Those guys pull 8, 9, 10 Gs. I mean, that's 8, 9, 10 times your body weight. They can only do it for three or four seconds. But that's all they need to make a turn. And when I do mine, I'm about the same amount of time, three or four seconds, but I'm only maximum. I'm a lot. I'm allowed my helicopter to go up to three and a half GS and I usually hit two point eighty two point nine, sometimes three GS and negative. And then when I do my back flips and things like that, I'm at zero G. I'm just literally falling with gravity.

[00:40:16] How do you do anything physically in your day to day life preparation? Just physically to help your body or out?

[00:40:25] I just try to eat the right stuff. You know, I'm not I'm not perfect shape. I used to be in perfect shape. I used be a runner. I ran a lot and and I'd run three or four times a week. And I got up there where I was run that 12 miles and. Oh, wow. But that was just something I enjoyed doing. About four years ago, a torn meniscus in my knee. And I haven't been able to get back to really running again. So I just had to watch my what I eat and when I eat and just fight it off that way and do some exercises. But I can't run anymore. Right. Right. And maybe someday I can, but I'm not there yet. Yeah, well, I was. It's important to be physically fit. Physically fit. Yes, it is.

[00:41:14] I was also curious about that. The feeling I mean, so few of us will ever get the opportunity to experience what it feels like to go upside down or be upside down. And I wonder if you could talk a bit about that feeling. What is that? Maybe describe the motion when you are upside down and some of the feelings of it going hard. But. But.

[00:41:41] Well, let's take a loop. For example, when you pull back on a stick, you pull back and you'll probably pull two G's twice your weight. Wow. And then as you'll go vertical and then the Jesus start coming off. And then when you go upside down, completely upside down, you're at zero gravity. And then you there's no GS you you're floating and even stuff in the cockpit will start floating. And so you're and your seat belt holds you in your seat as from floating because you don't have to float away from the controls. Right. Right. Right there at the. And the backside of a loop, you come down the backside, you're still at zero GS, but then everything changes quickly and then you have to pull out of the dove and you have to pull up pull back on a stick, which makes you pull up. And then that's when you really get the GS come into play. And so you'll pull two point six two point seventy two point eight three GS depending on the winds in the day and how well you did the loop and if it was a downwind loop or an into the wind loop and or crosswind loop. So it changed a little bit. But it's it's a cool feeling that you're gone from these positive GS and then you get this negative GS and it's invigorating.

[00:42:56] Well, that's what I was going to ask emotionally. Do you experience fear at all doing it or is that all gone? And it's just a toy?

[00:43:05] You know, that's an awesome question. I get a good answer for it. And it's accurate cause some people get air sick and they get it from the answer. Your question. Yes, I love it. It's joy for me. But I've never been air sick. But there's a reason for that is because I'm at the controls. Now, think about this. I'm in the cold. My hands are on the controls. So I'm I tell myself in advance, I'm going to pull this whole up or this aircraft, the helicopter. In my case, I'm a pull it up. So to do that, I'll pull back on a stick. So I know in advance I'm going to do this. I'm ahead of the game. Right. So I pull back on a stick and I'm intentionally and I'll start coming up to do the loop or a roll or whatever is I'm on do I'm ahead of the game. I'm just a split second ahead of it, but I'm before it. If you're a passenger. Right. Different program. You are reactive. You're behind the game. You don't know when it's exactly going to happen. And so that's when people will get sick. The only way you can not get sick is you have to have complete confidence in your pilot and know that this guy wants to come home as much as I do. And so if you're comfortable with your pilot that he's gonna do it right, then you won't get sick either. But it's all about being ahead of it or behind it. Right. And a leader or follower.

[00:44:29] I got it. OK. Well, I'd also like to ask you about what you're doing now, and I think that it is sharing this with other pilots and with other people interested. Could you talk a little bit about your current endeavor?

[00:44:43] Yeah, I'd love to. I left Red Bull in November of 15 and started up a school about an inverted I am C flying, that's inadvertently by accident. You fly into the fog or something like that. And I had a school where I teach people how to recover from that to get out. I did that in California for about a year and a half an. Didn't go as well as I thought it wouldn't get enough students fast enough to keep the program going, it's just too costly for me. So I left California, moved to Charlotte, North Carolina, where I live now, and I was home there six months bored to death, got another bill on five. And I decided I must start. I have a bunch people to tell me, Chuck, you're you're crazy. If you don't pass this on to other people, nobody else knows how to do it. But, you know, there's a couple others in Europe, but they came in after me. Right. And but I need to start spreading the word about how you do aerobatics, not so much so that you can take your eye. I don't want you doing your helicopter. Are you going to do it? Mine, because mine specifically made and built to do it right. And certified the tackling. But as for the thrill of it, the knowledge of it, and teach you to be a better pilot and gives you a little bit more. You didn't realize you could do this and do that, and it just makes you feel more confident. Next time you go fly your helicopter that I've hey, I can do this and make you feel better and don't get that feeling in your gut. I'm worried about something, so.

[00:46:16] Your school  now is open.

[00:46:22] So I'm in my school. I've got this whole lock up and I start teaching it and I started a school to teach it and then I'll teach anyone that wants to learn. Well, they've got to be a pilot, as they say. It's not for a beginner. Now, I want you to be more than 1000 hours and a flying time. And then you would come to my school and I get three or four hours of ground school with me. So we're exactly on the same page of what's going to happen. And I draw it out on whiteboards, exactly what we're gonna do. And then we're one I feel like we're on the same page that you know exactly what I'm gonna do. Then we'll go out and fly my helicopter and we'll let you do it. And I'll be right there with you to make sure you do it correctly. We'll be on a hot mike so we can talk to each other and I'll take it. Do this. Do that. Do that. And then we'll go through it. We'll do it. Probably 20 loops and 20 rolls and cup, probably 20 split SS. So it's lots of fun cause to go through. And everyone has gone through us just. Nobody said anything negative about it yet.

[00:47:24] And is that helicopter, is that the animal that I've seen on TV?

[00:47:29] Yeah. Yeah. I call it the animal because this just popped into my head. One day I'm going to call this thing the animal, because it truly is the animal. It's it's the wildest thing in there. Yeah. You guys gotta check it out. The pictures are amazing. That's it. I know. People list me. Well, I'll try to explain to the seats I've made them. They're leather with the hair on the tiger skin.

[00:47:56] Right. Right. And and I got big red eyes in the back seat. So on the wall, see, if you look inside, you see these big, huge red eyes. And I got the name and the animal painted on the outside of it.

[00:48:08] That's fantastic. Thank you. All right. Well, you heard it here and your Web site. Can you share that site in case anybody wants to get to find you and follow you?

[00:48:17] Oh, thank you. Yeah, it's my company. Web site is chuckaaronaerobatics.com. My Instagram. Follow me. Instagram is Chuck P. Aaron. And follow me Instagram. But I got to give a shout out to 91ɬÂþ. You've done a fantastic job. You've been on the board of directors of the Helicopter Association International, and one of our biggest problems to try and deal with is bringing on new students, some new pilots, because we need them bad in the end. And as you use filled a void and made it a void. And specifically, Mike Mauer has done a fantastic job on in this together with a school and a college. Right. You come out with not just flight training, but a college degree. And it's absolutely the perfect marriage. And he's got a awesome school here and I highly recommend it.

[00:49:23] Yeah. We are so proud of that school. Our school and and the aviation relationship that is just been going strong and they're just doing such amazing things. We need it. That's awesome. Well, I have to last. Sort of playful questions, though, that we ask all of our guests. And they're a little kind of fun and wild and it doesn't really matter. You can answer them however you want. And the first question is sort of a fun interview question. And that is that if you met yourself ten years ago in a bar fight, who would win with the with the version of yourself? Now, whether me or with the version 10 years ago when. And you can take that. However, you know that bar fight you could take however you want. You know. So how do you think we'd win that?

[00:50:12] My earlier version. Yeah. Yeah. I do think that the older I I'm getting older now and I'm not too old, but I'm not as strong as fit as I used to be. But it's especially ten years ago. But I have to go with the earlier version. Yeah, I would go with the earlier version of myself, too. I mean, I think that, you know, the other thing is I know I'm I'm a little more careful now than I was 10 years ago, you know, and and it's not it's maybe a maybe a fight. It's not worth the effort. So there's that as well. Yes, exactly. We learn how to prevent the fight.

[00:50:50] And then the last question I have for you is, is something we always ask our guests about anything in there. What's turning you on this week? And it could be it could be anything could be a song. It could be a book. It could be a TV show. It could be a movie. It could be anything you want to share. But it just gives. It could be a food item. It could be anything, but it just gives our audience a little sort of personal insight. So, Chuck, Aaron, what's turning you on this week?

[00:51:18] Well, thanks for asking. It's still the same thing as it has been forever. And that is my turn on his flying. And I still love to fly. Wow. And flying for 47 years. And I still like to get my hands on the controls and and and then and fly a helicopter. So me flying and doing our barracks and teaching that and come come to places like here at us, you, you and giving interviews and talking about what's happened to me and how I've done this and how did I get here anyway.

[00:51:48] Well, your passion is infectious. And and just the very last thing can you share with us that personal motto that you have that is just so inspiring as it's never quit, never get up, never quit, never give up and fight it until the end. Awesome. Well, that's all the time we have today. I'd like to thank you so much Chuck Aaron for joining us. Thank you for sharing your life and your career and all the amazing things that you've done. Thank you for being here.

[00:52:16] I really appreciate it, my honor. Thank you. Awesome. Well, that's going to be it for us today. We're going to be signing off and we will see you next week.

[00:52:25] Thanks so much for listening to the A.P.E.X Hour here on K91ɬÂþ Thunder 91.1. Come find us again next Thursday at 3 p.m. for more conversations with the visiting guests at Southern Utah University. And new music to discover for your next playlist. And in the meantime, we would love to see you at our events on campus to find out more. Check out suu.edu/apex. Until next week. This is Lynn Vartan saying goodbye from the A.P.E.X Hour. Here on Thunder 91.1.